Transition to a more *liberal* church??

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
Hats Off
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Re: Transition to a more *liberal* church??

Post by Hats Off »

From my point of view, this conversation is pointless. I will not be drawn into an unending argument about something that I believe to be basic to our way of life and faith. We take the Bible at face value - what it says is what it means. (although we do not raise our hands in prayer.)
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steve-in-kville
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Re: Transition to a more *liberal* church??

Post by steve-in-kville »

Hats Off wrote:From my point of view, this conversation is pointless. I will not be drawn into an unending argument about something that I believe to be basic to our way of life and faith. We take the Bible at face value - what it says is what it means. (although we do not raise our hands in prayer.)
I've been watching from the sidelines. I'm almost shocked this thread didn't get deep-sixed by now. Beyond the first page or two, I really didn't get the responses I was hoping for. Better luck next time.
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Hats Off
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Re: Transition to a more *liberal* church??

Post by Hats Off »

Rather hard to stay on topic it seems. When reading the discussions I frequently have to look back at the title of the thread to see what we were talking about.
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Sudsy
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Re: Transition to a more *liberal* church??

Post by Sudsy »

Hats Off wrote:From my point of view, this conversation is pointless. I will not be drawn into an unending argument about something that I believe to be basic to our way of life and faith. We take the Bible at face value - what it says is what it means. (although we do not raise our hands in prayer.)
That is up to the individual isn't it as one is not forced into discussing how other Anabaptists interpret certain texts that may have opposing views to other Anabaptists. When moving to a more 'liberal' church there are areas to consider on whether or not we can agree to disagree and still have fellowship.

If Steve wants to close this thread, he can ask the moderators to close it at any time.
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silentreader
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Re: Transition to a more *liberal* church??

Post by silentreader »

Sudsy wrote:
Josh wrote:I'm a little puzzled how you can say women are now qualified to teach but they weren't in the past.

Today, we have women preachers teaching that homosexuality and trans sexuality needed to be respected / promoted in a typical denomination that also allows women preachers. I'd say this is not a very good case for how women are "more qualified" today.
My guess is that you will find far more men preachers 'teaching that homosexuality and trans sexuality needed to be respected / promoted'. I don't see where this has anything to do with which gender is preaching this sort of thing.

Regarding the 'slippery slope' argument when challenging traditional interpretations of scripture, I agree that there are some looking for a more carnal type of Christian practise. However, there are others looking at what some of these interpretations of scripture have produced and are looking into the possibility that some of these views have been wrong for many years. Even in the early church fathers period the understandings of what scripture meant on various texts differed. For instance, the church father Origen taught that the Holy Spirit was a created being, that Satan and the demons will all eventually be saved. And what about the early teachings on baptismal regeneration, transubstantiation and infant baptism. Since Anabaptists and others have strayed from these beliefs were they on a 'slippery slope' into worldliness ?

By the way, I am challenging some traditional interpretations for various reasons. One being to see what kind of thought has gone into what one has chosen to believe and also to hopefully trigger more biblical conversation which most often comes only through a challenge of traditional thought. I appreciate those willing to join in and don't mind their opposing views. Opposing views on Christian belief and practise have been around since the earliest of the NC period and they are not about to go away. Within this we still have a core understanding of what Paul called the Gospel that saves us. Any church departing from those beliefs I would not fellowship in.
Be interesting to know the percentage by gender.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Transition to a more *liberal* church??

Post by KingdomBuilder »

I cannot help but wonder... What would it take for someone who supports something clearly spoken against in the NT to change their minds??
Not meaning to be aggressive, just seriously curious.
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Sudsy
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Re: Transition to a more *liberal* church??

Post by Sudsy »

KingdomBuilder wrote:I cannot help but wonder... What would it take for someone who supports something clearly spoken against in the NT to change their minds??
Not meaning to be aggressive, just seriously curious.
I suppose Menno Simons and Martin Luther would be two good sources to ask.
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ohio jones
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Re: Transition to a more *liberal* church??

Post by ohio jones »

KingdomBuilder wrote:I cannot help but wonder... What would it take for someone who supports something clearly spoken against in the NT to change their minds??
Conviction from the Holy Spirit.

Human reasoning won't do it; that's generally what got them where they are to begin with.
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Sudsy
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Re: Transition to a more *liberal* church??

Post by Sudsy »

ohio jones wrote:
KingdomBuilder wrote:I cannot help but wonder... What would it take for someone who supports something clearly spoken against in the NT to change their minds??
Conviction from the Holy Spirit.

Human reasoning won't do it; that's generally what got them where they are to begin with.
Trouble is, those who have their minds changed believe it is a conviction of the Holy Spirit just as those who don't change their mind also believe. Perhaps one is right as knowing Spirit conviction but perhaps both are still wrong through their human reasonings without Spirit guidance. Also, not everyone reads certain NT scripture as something clearly spoken against for all ages to come or beyond the immediate audience.

Luther thought he was convicted that we are saved by grace alone not as he was taught regarding works. He lived in a fear that he was never working hard enough to be saved. Menno, also a Catholic priest, was convicted that Luther was wrong about infant baptism. And moving on, split after split basis their changes on Holy Spirit convictions about "rightly dividing the word of truth".
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Transition to a more *liberal* church??

Post by KingdomBuilder »

So everything's just that subjective? Do you believe in absolute truths?

I know "Christians" who feel convicted that gay practices are justified. So does that make it okay?
Just cause someone claims conviction (whether by the Holy Spirit or not) does not make it so. That's a fact.
I just don't see where the line is drawn.
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