Evangelizing to self-proclaimed "Gay Christians"?

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steve-in-kville
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Re: Evangelizing to self-proclaimed "Gay Christians"?

Post by steve-in-kville »

francis wrote: I'd have to disagree. Homosexuality isn't something that people can help
No problem. Just my view on things. We actually have close family that are gay (some more openly than others). I've concluded some pretty strong opinions on this subject, hence my forwardness on the topic.

That aside... would you say that addicts can't help themselves? Drugs, alcohol, porn, gambling, or even sex?? I honestly want to hear opinions on this. Not trying to be contrary...
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Re: Evangelizing to self-proclaimed "Gay Christians"?

Post by Bootstrap »

steve-in-kville wrote:
francis wrote:I'd have to disagree. Homosexuality isn't something that people can help
No problem. Just my view on things. We actually have close family that are gay (some more openly than others). I've concluded some pretty strong opinions on this subject, hence my forwardness on the topic.

That aside... would you say that addicts can't help themselves? Drugs, alcohol, porn, gambling, or even sex?? I honestly want to hear opinions on this. Not trying to be contrary...
I'm not sure we have to take a position on this. Single people don't have to cure their heterosexuality to live pure lives. Some marriages are sexless for various reasons they don't manage to get past, that doesn't mean they should commit adultery or divorce so that they can get sex elsewhere. I think the biblical teaching is that sex is for people who are married to each other, and that marriage is grounded in our creation as male and female.

I think the world teaches that everyone is entitled to sex, and morality needs to fit in with that. And that's affecting how both gays and straights live their lives, married or single.
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steve-in-kville
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Re: Evangelizing to self-proclaimed "Gay Christians"?

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Not trying to be a jerk... but I am really lost in that response. Being gay is a sin. Pure and simple. Why are we debating this? I was an addict at one time (tried to be a career alcoholic). Many can say that is an "illness" or "disease." Yes and no, it was a lot deeper than that.

I'll be banned from this place in the next 24 hours. I can see it.
Last edited by steve-in-kville on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Evangelizing to self-proclaimed "Gay Christians"?

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Okay, too Boots response... I think we are on different pages here.....
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Re: Evangelizing to self-proclaimed "Gay Christians"?

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So how would you feel about this site? click here
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Re: Evangelizing to self-proclaimed "Gay Christians"?

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steve-in-kville wrote:Not trying to be a jerk... but I am really lost in that response. Being gay is a sin. Pure and simple. Why are we debating this? I was an addict at one time (tried to be a career alcoholic). Many can say that is an "illness" or "disease." Yes and no, it was a lot deeper than that.
Congratulations on overcoming alcohol!

I don't think "being gay" is a sin. I think having gay sex is a sin. I don't think "being straight" is a sin either, but there's only one woman I can have sex with, and that's because we are married. Because marriage is rooted in our creation as male and female, gays don't have a valid outlet for sex.

I really don't know if you can "cure" people of homosexual desire, there's really no good science on that, and it's so politicized and emotional that nobody wants to fund any study that would give a clear answer. The Bible doesn't tell us the answer either. It just tells men not to sleep with men and women not to sleep with women. So I am really uncomfortable promising people cures that neither the Bible nor science promise. I don't feel that I have a solid foundation for making that promise.
steve-in-kville wrote:I'll be banned from this place in the next 24 hours. I can see it.
I really doubt that, you aren't doing anything wrong, you are being respectful and expressing your views. We don't have to agree on everything to have a respectful discussion. I would really be upset if you were banned for the things you have said.

Let me share my background: My first wife eventually left me to marry another woman. I don't know if she could have changed her desires or not, I think she tried. We basically agreed to have a sexless marriage until she left me after 23 years. That required both of us to be willing to live without sex. I don't know if there is any way she could have changed her desires, we did not find one.
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Re: Evangelizing to self-proclaimed "Gay Christians"?

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lesterb wrote:So how would you feel about this site? click here
I think this well-describes what I was trying to say. Being gay, having those attractions does not make someone a sinner anymore than having adulterous attractions does, provided neither person acts on them. There have been studies showing that there are genetic predispositions to drugs and alcohol, and many people can die from the withdrawl symptoms (ei, going cold-turkey) if not treated properly. It's all much more complicated than just reducing it down to sin.
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Re: Evangelizing to self-proclaimed "Gay Christians"?

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francis wrote:
lesterb wrote:So how would you feel about this site? click here
I think this well-describes what I was trying to say. Being gay, having those attractions does not make someone a sinner anymore than having adulterous attractions does, provided neither person acts on them.
Exactly. Especially if "acts on them" includes flirting with temptation, establishing grey areas, etc. When you have significant temptations, it's especially important to play it safe.
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Re: Evangelizing to self-proclaimed "Gay Christians"?

Post by silentreader »

Bootstrap wrote:
francis wrote:
lesterb wrote:So how would you feel about this site? click here
I think this well-describes what I was trying to say. Being gay, having those attractions does not make someone a sinner anymore than having adulterous attractions does, provided neither person acts on them.
Exactly. Especially if "acts on them" includes flirting with temptation, establishing grey areas, etc. When you have significant temptations, it's especially important to play it safe.
...acts on them...

What about Jesus' statement in:
Matthew 5:27-28English Standard Version (ESV)
Lust
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
?
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Re: Evangelizing to self-proclaimed "Gay Christians"?

Post by Bootstrap »

silentreader wrote:...acts on them...

What about Jesus' statement in:
Matthew 5:27-28English Standard Version (ESV)
Lust
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
?
Here's how I understand this verse. The same word translated lust is used in the Septuagint in the commandment "thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife". It is also used when Jesus says he has set his heart on celebrating the last supper with the disciples. It means more than "feel attraction", it's more like "set your heart on", and it can refer to any desire - coveting your neighbor's ox or house, for instance - not just sexual desire. I think that's more than just feeling something, that's nursing the feeling and setting your heart on it. It's not wrong to notice a woman, but it's wrong to stare and dwell on it and feed on it.

Or as many country preachers put it, "you can't stop dogs from dropping by, but you can decide which ones to feed". I think that's biblical.
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