They call it a NEV -- a Neighborhood Electric Vehicle

[RZehr]

You seem to have missed reading the article.

These are actually legal to drive on regular roads as long as the speed limit on that road is 35 mph or lower. They just can’t be on highways, which have speed limits higher that 35 mph. So Seattles I-5 and bike lanes are not used at all.

So yes, a golf cart like these, is completely able to navigate within much of small / moderate sized city limits, from residential neighborhoods to schools, to stores.

I read the article. It is a dealer trying to sell these vehicles. But realistically, if you are living in say Bend or Redmond. How do you actually get anywhere without going on US-97? Which has a 55 or 60 mph speed limit, not 35? Most of the places people shop (big box stores) are along US-97. This is the most popular model of these things. By the time you get a nice one you are already in the $25,000 range. https://www.bacarts.com/New-Inventory-2 ... t%20states.

At that price point, might as well get an actual small EV that you can take on the highway and out into the country or even drive across the country.

Or spend $2-5k and get a decent cargo e-bike like this that you can actually take on bike paths and sidewalks, bring inside elevators, and park inside your apartment to safely store and charge if you live in a city where on-street parking is scarce and there would be no place to park and store one of those bigger NEVs. https://www.ternbicycles.com/en/bikes/472/gsd And also bring on buses and subways if you live in an actual city with mass transit.

It wouldn’t be an only vehicle. Most families have more than one car. E-bikes are sort of like motorcycles. Great idea, but rarely used because they can’t carry anything, or else the weather is cold, or raining, or whatever. Imagine a retired guy happily cruising around his neighborhood and occasionally across town for errands. Low to the ground, easier to get in and out of. He’s not going to get on an e-bike.

Look how India is using this type of small electric transportation:
https://apnews.com/article/electric-veh ... 386ad44a4b

If electric cars are going to replace gas, is the heavy $80,000 luxury Tesla really the thing that is going to do it?

[RZehr]

In the US, roughly 60% of journeys are under six miles, and cars in urban areas move slower than you would think. The average speed of a car in Midtown Manhattan is only 4.7 mph. As people seek affordable, practical, and eco-friendly ways to get around, the demand for advanced micro-EVs like the Eli ZERO is set to soar. According to McKinsey, the addressable market can reach $100 billion by 2030, and Eli is well-positioned to seize the opportunities presented by this transformative era.
…

Wink currently has four different models of LSVs that have all been homologated for street-legal use in the US. Two of its models, the Sprout and the Sprout Solar, are designed for budget-minded drivers, coming in at just under US $10,000. The more premium models, known as the Mark 1 and Mark 2 Solar, are still fairly low-priced at around US $12,000.
All of the models are four-seaters and have similar performance specs, feature safer fireproof lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries as standard, and include air conditioning.

The solar versions of each body style include a large solar panel on the roof to partially recharge the battery from the sun. The panels are sufficiently large to add around 5 miles of range per day, or even more in extra sunny areas. For those that only use the vehicle in the city or around the neighborhood, that might be enough to never charge the vehicles into the wall for home-charging.

Compared to most other buggy-style street-legal LSVs in the US, Wink’s models are slightly more car-like in their appearances, especially the Mark 1 and Mark 2 solar. The prices also compare favorably to higher cost LSVs, putting the Wink vehicles closer in line with LSV golf cart pricing.

https://electrek.co/2023/06/09/best-str ... in-the-us/

[RZehr]

Looks like these things can cross a highway and go across town.

Neighborhood Electric Vehicle (NEV) Access to Roadways

A NEV is any four-wheel electric vehicle capable of achieving a top speed between 20 and 25 miles per hour (mph) and complies with the federal equipment and safety standards in Title 49 of the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, section 571.500. NEVs may only operate on roads that have a posted speed limit of 35 mph or less, but are not restricted from crossing roadways with speeds limits greater than 35 mph.

https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/5768

[Ken]

Look, I don't have any objection to these vehicles at all. Buying a glorified golf cart as a second car is certainly more economical and environmentally friendly than something like a full size gas pickup.

I just don't buy the marketing hype that these golf cart companies are putting out as they try to market these vehicles into what is essentially an unregulated loophole.

First, they aren't going to be practical for anyone actually living in an urban area where parking and charging is going to be in short supply. Which is basically any inner city in the country. And people who are wealthy enough to have their own private parking and charging spot in large cities are going to fill it first with their primary car and not the golf cart vehicle. People aren't going to want to leave these insecure vehicle sitting overnight on city streets or even public parking lots. They will be too easy to hotwire and steal or just break into. Even if you could find a place to park and charge them. Someone in those circumstances would be much better served by something like a Prius Prime that can be had for not much more money than a fancy golf cart and that will be drivable and parkable anywhere in the country. It will go 600 miles on a tank of gas but can be used in full EV mode in cities as long as you have charging: https://www.toyota.com/priusprime/ It will go 115 mph on gas or electric and has all the safety features (air bags, crumple zones, backup cameras, blind spot monitors, etc.) of modern cars.

Second, they aren't going to be practical in any rural areas whatsoever where country roads and highways are all over 35 mph. If the road going past your house in rural America is some highway with 55 mph speed limits then you won't be legally able to even take one of these out of your driveway.

That leaves suburbia. Which is the only place where people both (1) have the space to park and charge these vehicles, and (2) have streets available where speed limits are 35 and under. But honestly, most of suburban America is just not well set up for this sort of thing. It is mostly disconnected subdivisions that are connected to everywhere else via higher capacity highways. And most of the services people use (groceries, big box stores like Home Depot, Costco, etc.) are located on highway interchanges and designed for car access. For example, where we lived in Waco TX it as suburban but it was also virtually impossible to get anywhere without using an actual highway since all the subdivisions and neighborhoods are completely disconnected via surface streets. You are forced to use I-35 or US-84 or TX-6 to actually make your way across Waco or do much in the way of shopping and those are all limited access highways with people going 70 mph where golf carts have no business venturing. That is the actual development pattern in most of suburban America.

So will there be a niche market for these things in smaller towns with calm traffic for wealthy retiree types to use them as a toy and second/third vehicle? Sure. But I don't see them as any sort of meaningful solution for the built environment we have created here in the US. And no, places like India are not comparable. What they are replacing in India is 2-cycle rickshaws and motorcycles, not cars. But our streets aren't full of people driving rickshaws and 150 cc 2-cycle motorcycles like much of the 3rd world. Our streets are full of trucks and SUVs and built for them.

[ohio jones]

First, they aren't going to be practical for anyone actually living in an urban area ...

Second, they aren't going to be practical in any rural areas ...

That leaves suburbia.

Ah, the false trichotomy. In my neighborhood, which is none of the above, there are already people who use golf carts to tool around town. There's no place with a speed limit above 35 until you get out of town, no highway barriers to cross, no shortage of parking, no theft to speak of, no disconnected subdivisions, no big box stores. Utopia, now that I think of it. And there are people who might very well want something that's optimized for neighborhood streets rather than for a golf course. It's not for everyone, and not going to supplant automotive use to any great extent, but there's probably enough of a market to make them worthwhile to produce.

[Ken]

First, they aren't going to be practical for anyone actually living in an urban area ...

Second, they aren't going to be practical in any rural areas ...

That leaves suburbia.

Ah, the false trichotomy. In my neighborhood, which is none of the above, there are already people who use golf carts to tool around town. There's no place with a speed limit above 35 until you get out of town, no highway barriers to cross, no shortage of parking, no theft to speak of, no disconnected subdivisions, no big box stores. Utopia, now that I think of it. And there are people who might very well want something that's optimized for neighborhood streets rather than for a golf course. It's not for everyone, and not going to supplant automotive use to any great extent, but there's probably enough of a market to make them worthwhile to produce.

Sounds like you are in the perfect place to own one then.

Does that mean you are going to buy one? Or is still an impractical and expensive toy even in your town?

[RZehr]

I’ve seen golf carts used on city streets too. I suppose the niche these fill best are maybe towns of 3,000 to 60,000 people. Way bigger, you run into the problems Ken mentions. And if there is nothing in your smaller town to go to, you need something bigger to get to the next town over.

[ohio jones]

Does that mean you are going to buy one? Or is still an impractical and expensive toy even in your town?

It's not practical for me, since most of my destinations are either within walking distance or outside the range of one of these. But there seem to be enough people with different travel patterns who could use an NEV instead of a second car to make this a profitable venture.

[Josh]

It’s actually legal where I am to drive ATVs or golf carts on country roads and in the nearest town, although technically you are supposed to get plates put on them. The township doesn’t care about that but the state highway patrol in state roads and the village police in town do care.

There is a guy who has some Honda electric scooter which folds up into a suitcase sized box. I saw him go to the bank and literally carry it inside like a suitcase.

Golf carts are a fun toy but are a bit impractical when one considers going through driving rain, or regularly going on a road where crashes may happen.

[Soloist]

Wife:It wasn’t clear from the article, but would there be an age limitation for the golf carts? I still wouldn’t necessarily find them safe for younger teenagers if they are having to deal with vehicles as well. Of course, it’s not like they have an age limit for bicycles that are riding the same streets, so maybe I’m just a helicopter mom.