Mennonite Flash Mob

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
appleman2006
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Re: Mennonite Flash Mob

Post by appleman2006 »

Sudsy wrote:As a non-Russian/German background Anabaptist, I am curious about the reason(s) for Christians presenting a culture and language different from the culture and english language we live in. Sounds to me like some form of patriotism which is usually frowned upon when others bring some American patriotism into their Christianity.

And regarding this happening in a local church, I was in a church one time where they selected a hymn not in english and since I couldn't participate my thoughts went to what the scripture says about speaking in an unknown tongue without an interpreter. In 1 Cor 14 we are told that everything is to be done to build up the church. It seems to me to say, speak only in the standard language of the culture and does not support the idea of speaking or worshipping aloud in other languages.

I attend an Anabaptist church of many colours from various ethnic backgrounds. To sing a hymn in German would just not happen. And, so far, we haven't had to deal with unknown tongues requiring interpreting. Personally I would find a church not using english throughout worship as not very inviting to an outsider like myself.

Any thoughts on this ?
I recall when I first started hearing Anabaptist choirs occasionally sing songs in another language at some of their programs. Unless they were going to at some time in their itinerary to be going to sing to that people group I at first did not really see the point.

But I see it a bit different today. Sometimes I simply like the music to speak for itself. Music I feel is a language in itself and at times it has spoken to me in very deep ways. I am sure Sudsy that at times you have listened to instrumentals and enjoyed them unless maybe you are a person that only enjoys them if you know the words behind them. I am not that way and this type of singing might be the closest that an a cappella choir comes to an instrumental.
Just something to think about.
To those of you that think a real opportunity to witness was missed here. Perhaps you are correct. I think their real purpose of doing this was for much more selfish reasons in that it was one last hurrah for them before they parted. On the other hand based on the number of hits these videos have had and talking into consideration that that means people often then also listen to other songs that they have sung, who knows if the overall impact may not have been greater then if they had simply sung a well known gospel song.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Mennonite Flash Mob

Post by Bootstrap »

I'm guessing this is not the last opportunity for Oasis to sing.

It would be cool to see a flash mob in Walmart or McDonalds with a more evangelistic focus. The choir could be part of this, of course, what else would you do to make it effective?
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
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Josh
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Re: Mennonite Flash Mob

Post by Josh »

Sudsy wrote:
Josh wrote:I find the idea that when spontaneously singing in public, it must be in English, rather offensive.
Do you feel the same when you are in a group of people and some begin talking to a sub group in another language ? Some people consider this as rude. They feel for some reason(s) they are being shut out of the conversation.

In what way does this offend you ? I want to understand this better.
This happens to me all the time, since the world by and large doesn't speak English as a first language.
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Peregrino
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Re: Mennonite Flash Mob

Post by Peregrino »

I don't get what the fuss is about. It's not knowledge imparted by the words being sung that will draw people to Jesus, but love and joy expressed.
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temporal1
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Re: Mennonite Flash Mob

Post by temporal1 »

Peregrino wrote:I don't get what the fuss is about. It's not knowledge imparted by the words being sung that will draw people to Jesus, but love and joy expressed.
so true.
add to that, so many people today are turned-off by anything they sense to be of Christianity, so, demonstrating a broader experience, by way of language/music, could be an effective "ice-breaker." as appleman is pointing out, just observing the "views" indicates interest! once folks are interested, they will seek more. in this case, they are likely to seek more music from this group, which will quickly introduce them to worship of God in music.

frankly, Mennonites speak many languages, are comprised of many different-sounding and looking people. in this way, i was intrigued at the OP song. for me, it reflected a bit of how Mennonites are not just in PA. and they are interested and invested in others.

some of these listeners may be introduced to Jesus, when, otherwise, they would have simply closed the door. the world is sending lots of messages to just close the door on Jesus.

God uses all things for His purposes. He really does.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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Sudsy
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Re: Mennonite Flash Mob

Post by Sudsy »

appleman2006 wrote:
Sudsy wrote:As a non-Russian/German background Anabaptist, I am curious about the reason(s) for Christians presenting a culture and language different from the culture and english language we live in. Sounds to me like some form of patriotism which is usually frowned upon when others bring some American patriotism into their Christianity.

And regarding this happening in a local church, I was in a church one time where they selected a hymn not in english and since I couldn't participate my thoughts went to what the scripture says about speaking in an unknown tongue without an interpreter. In 1 Cor 14 we are told that everything is to be done to build up the church. It seems to me to say, speak only in the standard language of the culture and does not support the idea of speaking or worshipping aloud in other languages.

I attend an Anabaptist church of many colours from various ethnic backgrounds. To sing a hymn in German would just not happen. And, so far, we haven't had to deal with unknown tongues requiring interpreting. Personally I would find a church not using english throughout worship as not very inviting to an outsider like myself.

Any thoughts on this ?
I recall when I first started hearing Anabaptist choirs occasionally sing songs in another language at some of their programs. Unless they were going to at some time in their itinerary to be going to sing to that people group I at first did not really see the point.

But I see it a bit different today. Sometimes I simply like the music to speak for itself. Music I feel is a language in itself and at times it has spoken to me in very deep ways. I am sure Sudsy that at times you have listened to instrumentals and enjoyed them unless maybe you are a person that only enjoys them if you know the words behind them. I am not that way and this type of singing might be the closest that an a cappella choir comes to an instrumental.
Just something to think about.
To those of you that think a real opportunity to witness was missed here. Perhaps you are correct. I think their real purpose of doing this was for much more selfish reasons in that it was one last hurrah for them before they parted. On the other hand based on the number of hits these videos have had and talking into consideration that that means people often then also listen to other songs that they have sung, who knows if the overall impact may not have been greater then if they had simply sung a well known gospel song.
I, too, experience feelings from instrumental and music with words I don't understand. They can range from being temporarily happy to being temporarily sad. I enjoyed this video as far as the harmony and use of special affects. But for me, my spirit is moved beyond feelings when I focus on words I relate to. What is said in 1 Cor 14 about the use of a language that I can understand seems to me to be most appropriate also when used in singing. There are times I use music without words to give me certain, enjoyable feelings but to me, I am using this as a substitute for what I can enjoy through making melody in my heart unto the Lord and being filled with the Spirit. When I listen to instrumentals without words but know the words I am often deeply moved by the combination.

I do agree that love and joy expressed are important but have problems when understandable words are not used in reaching the lost as in Romans 10:13-14 says they are. I don't doubt before words are used other means are used in God's drawing others to believe but when words are not seen as the primary way to spread the Gospel and are avoided by many of us supported by the unscriptural saying 'when all else fails use words', then satan, the great deceiver, is quite pleased.

Bottom line, are our methods resulting in new converts, especially the unchurched, being saved and joining our communities to learn discipleship or not. If not, are we kidding ourselves by our impact. If yes, please share what is being done in furthering the Kingdom.
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temporal1
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Re: Mennonite Flash Mob

Post by temporal1 »

to clarify my thoughts. to try. :)
i don't see this as black or white, right or wrong.
there are different views and approaches, God uses all for His purposes.

i'm afraid current culture tends to want to reduce everything to black+white.
i think this sadly closes too many doors. God uses all, it's well to seek Him in all.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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Josh
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Re: Mennonite Flash Mob

Post by Josh »

Peregrino wrote:I don't get what the fuss is about. It's not knowledge imparted by the words being sung that will draw people to Jesus, but love and joy expressed.
I'd particularly like to hear the point of view of how people who aren't believers would respond to this spontaneous singing vs a programmed gospel singing.

If anyone else is a recent convert, please share your opinion. I'll share mine if nobody else does.
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Josh
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Re: Mennonite Flash Mob

Post by Josh »

Bottom line, are our methods resulting in new converts, especially the unchurched, being saved and joining our communities to learn discipleship or not. If not, are we kidding ourselves by our impact. If yes, please share what is being done in furthering the Kingdom.
Yes. They are. And myself and my friends who reach out locally have our hands completely full with the seekers and converts and near-converts the Lord has put us in touch with. But other Christian people to co-labour with us are hard to find - frankly, they're all off busy at travelling singing groups but don't seem to have time to come work with us in the city.

In my home church, there's also plenty of mission work and evangelism work - so much, they keep putting out pleas almost every week for young people to go to VS units or married couples or single people to go to mission churches or plant new churches.

Sorry for my cynicism in my response but it gets tiresome hearing my methods "don't work" when I just wish I had more people alongside me to help with the hard work of discipleship. I'm immature, hot headed, and my home church is an hour away from the city where all the seekers and needy people are.
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Sudsy
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Re: Mennonite Flash Mob

Post by Sudsy »

Josh wrote:
Bottom line, are our methods resulting in new converts, especially the unchurched, being saved and joining our communities to learn discipleship or not. If not, are we kidding ourselves by our impact. If yes, please share what is being done in furthering the Kingdom.
Yes. They are. And myself and my friends who reach out locally have our hands completely full with the seekers and converts and near-converts the Lord has put us in touch with. But other Christian people to co-labour with us are hard to find - frankly, they're all off busy at travelling singing groups but don't seem to have time to come work with us in the city.

In my home church, there's also plenty of mission work and evangelism work - so much, they keep putting out pleas almost every week for young people to go to VS units or married couples or single people to go to mission churches or plant new churches.

Sorry for my cynicism in my response but it gets tiresome hearing my methods "don't work" when I just wish I had more people alongside me to help with the hard work of discipleship. I'm immature, hot headed, and my home church is an hour away from the city where all the seekers and needy people are.
Josh, I think your home church situation is quite rare. It is good to hear how your group is involved in furthering the Kingdom. It reminds me of the Pentecostal group I was raised in and also a later Evangelical Baptist church. However, my guess is that too many Anabaptist churches are not doing evangelism in a way that results in an inflow of the unchurched. In my local church the inflow is mostly from other churches were people got discouraged and went shopping for a new church home. There are some attempts at outreach but I'm not hearing testimonies of the unchurched being reached. And partly this is my fault as I don't need some special program to be reaching the lost, do I ?

There is something strangely missing in churches who, by their actions, don't show much concern and effort to reach the lost.
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