Testimony of a Former Amish

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
Valerie
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Re: Testimony of a Former Amish

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:I'm pretty confused. The Amish hold to the Schleitheim Confession, which starts off with:
Baptism shall be given to all those who have learned repentance and amendment of life, and who believe truly that their sins are taken away by Christ, and to all those who walk in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and wish to be buried with Him in death, so that they may be resurrected with Him and to all those who with this significance request it (baptism) of us and demand it for themselves.
That's exactly what Amish affirm when they are baptised, including the part about "their sins are taken away by Christ" and that they now "walk in the resurrection of Jesus Christ".

I have yet to meet any Amish or Amish-esque people who do not believe in salvation by grace, and usually their testimony involves knowing they were a sinner and that they needed to repent, and then they sought baptism and publicly accepting Christ when they joined the Amish church. Of course, I'm sure there are some who don't, and I don't spend much time around low Amish like Swartzentrubers, but those are not at all the majority of Old Order Amish.

So this whole story is just puzzling / baffling to me.
You really have to know and listen to many Amish and former Amish- usually only the formers will share how difficult it is.
By 'faith alone' to many of these OO or Swartzentruber Amish- that means they don't have to follow the endless rules that are 'added to the faith' (Often they quote Matthew 15:9 : King James Bible
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.) in order to be a good Amish person when they pass. Many of them don't know how to have a real relationship with Christ but are so focused on the rules, even the prayer books and not even knowing how to pray on their own. I've head & read countless testimonies- but his testimony really touched my heart.

I love how now the entire family- including all 12 children are serving the Lord as missionaries in Niceragua- something they could not have done while they were Amish-
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Valerie
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Re: Testimony of a Former Amish

Post by Valerie »

Hats Off wrote:Noticed that later! Thanks.
I have heard testimonies from former Amish who simply questioned their Amish Church/doctrine by reading the Bible- and had nothing to do with MAP nor had heard of MAP.

MAP posting his testimony has nothing to do with the testimony itself- and what God is doing in his and his families life that would be quenched if he had of remained Amish (in his case, and in the case of many). If being a Christian means being like the Amish then we all would be- if not, then we shouldn't get upset that they leave for a more fervent walk with Christ- especially like this family who became missionaries-
One of my former Amish friends who became Mennonite- simply wanted to share Christ with everyone, he kept being told to be quiet, not their way, etc- but he had a very evangelical heart for the lost- so he finally got an actual 'pink slip' from his community to leave. What he went through caused him a great deal of distress, loss, etc- simply because he didn't fit their mold as what a Christian should do- be quiet, follow rules that make no sense- and he didn't agree with their doctrines-
what is a person supposed to do? Obey God or man?
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Josh
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Re: Testimony of a Former Amish

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Are you sure about that? New Order Amish send out missionaries and the Old Order Amish now have settlements in Belize and Bolivia.

And any of these people could join a conservative Beachy group and retain Anabaptist doctrine (which is really just Christian, biblical obedience to Jesus), and their culture too. Or they could go to a Conservative Mennonite or Holdeman church if they wanted to leave their old culture. Both do a great deal of mission work and strongly teach salvation by grace.

I question someone who claims they got "saved" by leaving the Amish when they carry a handgun, join the military, and campaign for Donald Trump. And those are the things the Amish church rules and oral traditions (which you seem to love when you can convince yourself they are ancient and Orthodox) are all built around preventing.

The scarier question is if those who disobey Jesus' very clear commands not to kill -- especially when they have been taught them by their Amish church for years -- actually will be saved on day of judgment.
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Valerie
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Re: Testimony of a Former Amish

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:Are you sure about that? New Order Amish send out missionaries and the Old Order Amish now have settlements in Belize and Bolivia.

Just addressing your thoughts- all I can say is Josh, I know some former Amish who did join other Anabaptist groups but still don't agree with all things Anabaptist- and have even advised me not to focus on Anabaptism- (because I was) so there are many who don't agree with all this focus on Anbaptist sects-

A Settlement is not the same thing as missionary work- and why does one have to be New Order Amish to be a Christian? His testimony is powerful, and real- and the Holy Spirit was working in his life, I won't criticize that-

And any of these people could join a conservative Beachy group and retain Anabaptist doctrine (which is really just Christian, biblical obedience to Jesus), and their culture too. Or they could go to a Conservative Mennonite or Holdeman church if they wanted to leave their old culture. Both do a great deal of mission work and strongly teach salvation by grace.

A person has the freedom to worship in the Church that they are led to, I don't know what denomination he identifies with, doesn't matter really as I see God working in his life and his family's life, that is a testimony- maybe the sectarianism in Anabaptism is discouraging? I have heard this from some- to many divisions- it can make one nuts-

I question someone who claims they got "saved" by leaving the Amish when they carry a handgun, join the military, and campaign for Donald Trump. And those are the things the Amish church rules and oral traditions (which you seem to love when you can convince yourself they are ancient and Orthodox) are all built around preventing.

Don't ascribe those things to him, no where does he say he carries a handgun, approves of joining the military or voting for Donald Trump (many Amish, from what I was told, love Donald Trump by the way, my former Amish (now Mennonite) friend works with them and they are glad he won)

The scarier question is if those who disobey Jesus' very clear commands not to kill -- especially when they have been taught them by their Amish church for years -- actually will be saved on day of judgment.
Him and His family are missionaries, called by Jesus Christ- don't worry about him. I praise God for what God is doing in his life.
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Josh
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Re: Testimony of a Former Amish

Post by Josh »

I do not "praise God" when people abandon nonresistance and kingdom Christianity. It's not a cause for celebration.
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Neto
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Re: Testimony of a Former Amish

Post by Neto »

I think that if a particular Old Order Amish district opposes true faith, there are various options available to that person, some involving even less change than those already suggested by Josh. I know Amish (yes, even OO) ministers who are evangelistic in their faith, and share the real Gospel of salvation through Jesus the Christ of God, so sometimes just moving to another district will be all that is necessary. Then there is the New Order, who are quite active, especially in work with some of my own people who lost their way, and having realized it, are asking for help from the Amish. (I'm thinking mainly of the Old Colony settlements in Old Mexico and Bolivia.) One of my wife's cousin's sons has worked for many years in Haiti. I worked with him at his uncle's steel shop for quite a while while he was home on furlough once, and I know that he was coupling his service work there with true Gospel teaching & example. And I know that his father very much supports him in that work. A New Order Amish businessman I've known for now nearly 10 years, and with whom I've had many conversations about Christian faith & concerns, takes mission trips to places in South & Central America. (His brother also currently lives in Belize, no longer New Order Amish, but either Beachy or some other similar congregation.) My father-in-law took a missions service team to Brazil to build a couple of house for missionaries back in 1971 (on the very mission center from which my wife & I later, much later, did our Bible translation work). Some of those men were Amish, and the son of one of those men later worked in Africa (under CAM, I think) for maybe 10 years or more. A young single Amish woman I know has made at least two summer trips to Kenya, working with ACMI (Africa Christian Ministries International), a two-week trip that one of our pastors leads every year. I also recall a certain Amish secretary in one of the (Amish-owned) business for which I do tech work, who is always singing Christian choruses. I sort of stunned her a bit, I think, when I asked her once if I could ask her a personal question, then asked her to what she attributes her Christian faith. I had asked because my wife's family own some apartments here in Berlin, and we often have renters who are young Amish women who have fled their home communities in other states to get away from the extreme restrictions in force there. Some have jumped so far over the fence that only an in-group person would recognize them as being former Amish, but some others are truly open, but also really confused. We try to do what we can to help them, but usually they move around a lot, so we don't get the time to build the trust necessary to have a real impact on them.

On one of our early furloughs, perhaps 1991 or so, we met a former Amish family who had just left their congregation. Maybe they were still Amish when we met them, I don't recall now. They were very 'evangelistic', and we enjoyed fellowshipping with them, but by the next time we came back to the States on furlough they had really gone off into left field, and weren't attending any congregation at all, because they couldn't find anyone who agreed with their self-found direction. There's also something very sad about that, and unfortunately that is too often what happens.
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Neto
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Re: Testimony of a Former Amish

Post by Neto »

Valerie wrote: Him and His family are missionaries, called by Jesus Christ- don't worry about him. I praise God for what God is doing in his life.
I need to get to work, but as I was about to leave this site, this statement jumped out at me. As a former career missionary, I can tell you, honestly, and with a good deal of sadness, that being a missionary does not mean that we do not need to be concerned for someone. Unfortunately I know more than one missionary who ran aground and shipwrecked their faith.
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Valerie
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Re: Testimony of a Former Amish

Post by Valerie »

Neto wrote:The testimony or article does not indicate when this happened, or what group of Amish he was a member of. Some parts of it sound like what I've been told was the situation back in the late 50's & early 60's (when the Bible study movement was opposed by the leadership). Even today, the situation varies vastly from one group to the next, and I know Amish men personally who have told me that they do some of the things he mentions as being forbidden, like praying personal prayers in a family time.

I believe this was not very long ago- and yes, that is true what you say many have told you personally- it's a false Gospel in many ways, a system that moved off of the foundation-

I count it all joy when they are persecuted from those who wish to judge them because God is using them and clearly was involved in moving them in the direction they went- away from a mindset that is focused on ordinances that do not change hearts.
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Valerie
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Re: Testimony of a Former Amish

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:I do not "praise God" when people abandon nonresistance and kingdom Christianity. It's not a cause for celebration.
You made a judgement about him, without knowing if it is even true or not- scary.

I'm mindful of:

Romans 8:31King James Version (KJV)

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Testimony of a Former Amish

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Neto wrote:
Valerie wrote: Him and His family are missionaries, called by Jesus Christ- don't worry about him. I praise God for what God is doing in his life.
I need to get to work, but as I was about to leave this site, this statement jumped out at me. As a former career missionary, I can tell you, honestly, and with a good deal of sadness, that being a missionary does not mean that we do not need to be concerned for someone. Unfortunately I know more than one missionary who ran aground and shipwrecked their faith.
Same here. Two couples on my former station fell into sin, and made a shipwreck of the faith of many. There are perhaps more opportunities there than here, where you have a church body to lean on.

J.M.
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