What Some 'in the church' are saying-thoughts?

[Valerie]

Posted by a member of our former church:

"With America experiencing divine intervention, this breathing room must not be an excuse for complacency or passivity. Darkness is being exposed in the political realm, and spiritual forces will remain aggressive to try to retain power and maintain the strongholds. Our sacred responsibility is to be offensive, not merely defensive, in dislodging these entities.
Three things can provoke God’s judgment on America: abortion on demand, abandonment of Israel and homosexual marriage. Believers must remain engaged through prayer and repentance, proclamation of the gospel to change human hearts.
Our priority remains the Great Commission: to make disciples of our nation and not merely comfortable converts. We have a wide open door to rescue a generation as we learn to effectively and winsomely communicate a biblical worldview on today’s issues."

Thoughts?

[Bootstrap]

I think the list of things that can lead to judgement of our land is too short. I think it is wrong-headed to think that we will not be judged as long as we check those three boxes.

More importantly, I think the Kingdom of God is not mostly about "a biblical worldview on today’s (political) issues". Our focus on politics has often distracted us from even seriously thinking about what the Kingdom of God is or how we live it out as a church. When the church teaches new converts how to serve and love others, living out the Kingdom of God, we will do much more good than we ever can be engaging in politics.

[Valerie]

I think the list of things that can lead to judgement of our land is too short. I think it is wrong-headed to think that we will not be judged as long as we check those three boxes.

More importantly, I think the Kingdom of God is not mostly about "a biblical worldview on today’s (political) issues". Our focus on politics has often distracted us from even seriously thinking about what the Kingdom of God is or how we live it out as a church. When the church teaches new converts how to serve and love others, living out the Kingdom of God, we will do much more good than we ever can be engaging in politics.

Agreed it is too short- also not sure what to think about the 'abandoning Israel' part- is it our place to support Israel? Many Christians feel we should because when they became a nation again in 1948, many believe this is of God and they are His elect 'again'- forgetting that there was a reason the temple was destroyed in A.D.70 and Jesus foretold it would be, and did not mention that we were suppose to support Israel at that time, in the way it is suggested here- I'm trying to discern this-

However of course a lot of Christians feel that serving and loving others would also include (as we've had many discussions about) affecting the laws that 'promote' evil (like abortion, same sex marriage, and on and on it goes) but I do realize most Anabaptists would abstain from thinking that is part of helping "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" to keep evil from actually being supported, legalized, and leading young people then to believe it must not be wrong, if it is legal- but God is Sovereign, each of us needs to pray to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit on how all we can make a difference, right now I know in my home, we really are not engaged enough to make a real difference and are seeking and praying where to be servants.

[Josh]

I think Jesus is far more concerned with whether or not people engage in fornication, adultery, and sodomy than whether or not same sex marriage is legal. In Jesus' time, laws about marriage permitted things he said should not be so. He proclaimed in the Sermon on the Mount that living a life with lust was as bad adultery, and divorcing your wife other than for immorality and remarrying another could be as bad as adultery.

He also gave people a way to actually overcome those sins. Laws just reflect that people in a society already do. We need the victory of the good news of Jesus to show sinners they can truly change their mind - permanently - about continuing to sin. Changing laws right now wouldn't do much except make everyone guilty of the law.

I think Jesus would proclaim the same today. But he never told his disciples to try to get the laws changed, or issue updates to the Talmud.

I think Jesus is pretty concerned if we have hatred in our hearts towards our brother, and that is the same as murder.

And I don't think Jesus cared at all about the government of Israel. He certainly wasn't focused on overthrowing the foreign power occupying Israel at the time and in fact refused to do anything about it, to the chagrin of his disciples who wanted political change.

I don't think we should worry too much about "God's judgment on America". God's judgment will be fair, just and the best thing that could happen for any of us. We should work out our own salvation with fear and trembling and see how we can love our neighbours and our enemies, and see how we can help build up our brethren on the faith and shore up the weak among us.

Jesus' kingdom is at hand and it's a much better, more enduring thing than the United States, where we are merely ambassadors.

[ohio jones]

Believers must remain engaged through prayer and repentance, proclamation of the gospel to change human hearts. Our priority remains the Great Commission: to make disciples of our nation and not merely comfortable converts.

This I can agree with, except the part about limiting the Great Commission to "our nation."

[Valerie]

Believers must remain engaged through prayer and repentance, proclamation of the gospel to change human hearts. Our priority remains the Great Commission: to make disciples of our nation and not merely comfortable converts.

This I can agree with, except the part about limiting the Great Commission to "our nation."

Agreed, also agree that the list should be longer of what 'could' bring judgement, probably a combination of a lot, we do know what all grieves the Lord's heart- but as far as actually judging a nation, I would be hesitant to proclaim a prophetic word so to speak as true prophesy