Whooping Cough Outbreak Strikes Missouri Amish Community

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Hats Off
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Re: Whooping Cough Outbreak Strikes Missouri Amish Community

Post by Hats Off »

Max, Appleman and I were just discussing practices in our local community. I was also attempting to show how some may have rationalized not vaccinating. I was not criticizing.
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Josh
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Re: Whooping Cough Outbreak Strikes Missouri Amish Community

Post by Josh »

if a Catholic were to engage in the same behavior towards the Mennonites that some Mennonites engage in towards the Amish, I can guarantee that there would be a huge outcry
In defence of Mennonites, we have never systematically arrested and executed Amish. Catholics did so for centuries to Mennonites.

Ultimately, I agree that a tragedy calls for prayer (although I focus more on praying for needs closer to me where I can know more details and be more connected to the people I'm praying for). But prayer without good deeds is not very useful. So I focus on meeting needs near me, or with a group of people where I can actually help.

I will continue to speak strongly in favour of vaccinations because they save lives, and are saving lives right now where this outbreak happened.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Whooping Cough Outbreak Strikes Missouri Amish Community

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Why not vaccinate? Is it a matter of conviction or convenience for the Amish?
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Wade
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Re: Whooping Cough Outbreak Strikes Missouri Amish Community

Post by Wade »

MaxPC wrote:
appleman2006 wrote:
MaxPC wrote:Can we just pray for them and not start in on a dissection of their choices? If something like this happened to your family, would you want folks to pray or second guess your family?

These men and women are our brothers and sisters in Christ as well. :cry:
I accept that but I also have no problem calling out someone particularly from my own broader culture when I feel they are off base. I hope they would do the same for me.
Even when suffering is involved? Appleman, my concern here is the incessant criticism of the Amish and even other Anabaptists. The negativity that erupts even over a news story that should send us to prayer is disheartening among a group of Christians. Seekers find it troubling as well as has been previously noted by others on this board.

It doesn't matter to some on this board that these people are suffering. The bashing begins whenever they are mentioned. First, a story is posted about a need or situation. Inevitably the same individuals start bunny trailing the thread by criticizing the people involved. Then the excuses begin that "we should be able to criticize if we want to" with rationalizations ad nauseam. Meanwhile the suffering of the those in the OP is completely lost in the process. This is completely discouraging to seekers and others who are here for encouragment. It's sad.

Calling someone out who is not in our own faith community is something that seems off-base to me. I can understand this process within a fellowship but not when it devolves into a bashing of those who aren't within one's fellowship. At that point it becomes a form of persecution. When a story of suffering is posted, if a Catholic were to engage in the same behavior towards the Mennonites that some Mennonites engage in towards the Amish, I can guarantee that there would be a huge outcry.

Let's pray for these people instead of bashing, criticizing, calling them out or whatever else it may be labeled. They are suffering. When your families suffer I hope to be able to pray for them as well and I promise I won't be the one to engage in the negativity and bashing. It's not suitable nor charitable. We'll just pray for you all.
Thank you very much for this Max!
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Whooping Cough Outbreak Strikes Missouri Amish Community

Post by ken_sylvania »

KingdomBuilder wrote:Why not vaccinate? Is it a matter of conviction or convenience for the Amish?
Possibly a lack of conviction.... not convinced that the vaccinations are actually worthwhile... I know some people for whom that would be the case.
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Hats Off
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Re: Whooping Cough Outbreak Strikes Missouri Amish Community

Post by Hats Off »

And as I pointed out earlier, in the past there has been conviction against vaccination.
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appleman2006
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Re: Whooping Cough Outbreak Strikes Missouri Amish Community

Post by appleman2006 »

I do feel bad for those that are suffering because their parents made a very bad and ill-informed decision. But I cannot really apologize for stating the fact that I feel this is a very wrong thing to do. As I see it that does not show that I do not care. Rather it shows that I care enough that I am willing to speak out in the hopes that others will not make the same mistake.

The mistake has been made. I cannot change that. If these were my neighbours literally I would be doing what I could to show them that I care and part of that would be trying to inform others so that the mistake is not repeated. That is all I was doing here. At least that is what I was attempting to do. I am sorry if my comments sounded judgmental rather than caring.

I have a number of Amish and even more old older Mennonite acquaintances that I consider to be close friends. We have conversations at times on our various beliefs and it is not hard to find things that I really appreciate about them. I hope they can find at least one or two things like that about me. But I do not expect them to agree with everything about my lifestyle just as I do not about theirs and I have no problem when they call me out on things that I do that they might see as harmful. It causes me to take a second look. At times I may even find them having a valid point. And when I think they are wrong it then gives me a chance to explain to them why I do what I do.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Whooping Cough Outbreak Strikes Missouri Amish Community

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

appleman2006 wrote:I do feel bad for those that are suffering because their parents made a very bad and ill-informed decision. But I cannot really apologize for stating the fact that I feel this is a very wrong thing to do. As I see it that does not show that I do not care. Rather it shows that I care enough that I am willing to speak out in the hopes that others will not make the same mistake.

The mistake has been made. I cannot change that. If these were my neighbours literally I would be doing what I could to show them that I care and part of that would be trying to inform others so that the mistake is not repeated. That is all I was doing here. At least that is what I was attempting to do. I am sorry if my comments sounded judgmental rather than caring.

I have a number of Amish and even more old older Mennonite acquaintances that I consider to be close friends. We have conversations at times on our various beliefs and it is not hard to find things that I really appreciate about them. I hope they can find at least one or two things like that about me. But I do not expect them to agree with everything about my lifestyle just as I do not about theirs and I have no problem when they call me out on things that I do that they might see as harmful. It causes me to take a second look. At times I may even find them having a valid point. And when I think they are wrong it then gives me a chance to explain to them why I do what I do.
I will admit I get a bit over the top on antivaxers, but I have seen the consequences.

J.M.
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Soloist
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Re: Whooping Cough Outbreak Strikes Missouri Amish Community

Post by Soloist »

Judas Maccabeus wrote: I will admit I get a bit over the top on antivaxers, but I have seen the consequences.

J.M.
I do appreciate care on making sure medical needs are taken care of, but I'm cautious about brushing any medical treatment with an outright stamp of approval. At one point antibiotic soap was the best thing, now they are saying its bad. I just prefer that parents are informed of the risk and permitted to make their choices. If the laws like in Ca keep getting passed preventing school unless you are fully vaccinated I'll keep moving to new states till I leave the country. I will not use vaccines grown on human cells from aborted babies. If we never stand against unethical practice, how will things ever change?

As with many disagreements, I don't condemn those who use the vaccines with MRC5 or WI-38 but I personally will not use them nor my children.
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appleman2006
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Re: Whooping Cough Outbreak Strikes Missouri Amish Community

Post by appleman2006 »

Soloist wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote: I will admit I get a bit over the top on antivaxers, but I have seen the consequences.

J.M.
I do appreciate care on making sure medical needs are taken care of, but I'm cautious about brushing any medical treatment with an outright stamp of approval. At one point antibiotic soap was the best thing, now they are saying its bad. I just prefer that parents are informed of the risk and permitted to make their choices. If the laws like in Ca keep getting passed preventing school unless you are fully vaccinated I'll keep moving to new states till I leave the country. I will not use vaccines grown on human cells from aborted babies. If we never stand against unethical practice, how will things ever change?

As with many disagreements, I don't condemn those who use the vaccines with MRC5 or WI-38 but I personally will not use them nor my children.
And as long as you do not hang out too much with others that think as you do and have enough friends who vaccinate you and your children will probably be just fine.
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