Evangelism, Empathy, and Christian Nationalism...

[Ken]

Sure, if you limit the frame of reference to one's own lifetime you can paint a different picture than if you take into account a broader scope. Things change over time, but history tends to be cyclical.

Let's look at some specific localities between 1976 and 2020.

In 1976 the vote was as follows:

Mifflin County PA: Ford 55% to 44% for Carter
Holmes County OH: Ford 54% to 42% for Carter
Multnomah County OR (Portland) 53% Carter, 46% Ford

In 2020 those same counties voted as follows:

Mifflin County: 78% Trump, 21% Biden
Holmes County: 83% Trump, 13% Biden
Multnomah County: 79% Biden, 18% Trump

If that isn't growing polarization, I don't know what is. And as communities become more and more polarized, it seeps into and infects religion, just like everything else.

[Josh]

Considering Christianity and the Bible are the most important things in the world to me, why wouldn’t they affect how other Christians vote?

[Ken]

Considering Christianity and the Bible are the most important things in the world to me, why wouldn’t they affect how other Christians vote?

I would suggest that if you go plank by plank through the platforms* of both political parties you can find equal support in the Bible for both. It is just different issues that they are focused on.

*well, at least you could have when the Republican party still had a platform. Who knows what they stand for now.

[Soloist]

Considering Christianity and the Bible are the most important things in the world to me, why wouldn’t they affect how other Christians vote?

I would suggest that if you go plank by plank through the platforms* of both political parties you can find equal support in the Bible for both. It is just different issues that they are focused on.

*well, at least you could have when the Republican party still had a platform. Who knows what they stand for now.

Likewise, you can find things unbiblical in both camps that defile those who support the enemy of God.

[Ken]

Considering Christianity and the Bible are the most important things in the world to me, why wouldn’t they affect how other Christians vote?

I would suggest that if you go plank by plank through the platforms* of both political parties you can find equal support in the Bible for both. It is just different issues that they are focused on.

*well, at least you could have when the Republican party still had a platform. Who knows what they stand for now.

Likewise, you can find things unbiblical in both camps that defile those who support the enemy of God.

Which is why I argue that churches should be less political on both the left and right. That doesn't mean I would argue that Christians should abstain from politics. I think in a democracy, Christians should participate. But that churches themselves should abstain from getting directly involved in partisan politics because doing so undermines their more important role. I think other broad public institutions like schools and universities, hospitals, and corporations should also generally abstain from politics as well for the same reasons.

[Joy]

Sure, if you limit the frame of reference to one's own lifetime you can paint a different picture than if you take into account a broader scope. Things change over time, but history tends to be cyclical.

Right, to quote a Bible college professor from my academic days--"the pendulumic propensity of man." You definitely see it in the history of the Jews.

[Bootstrap]

Quote for the day - Christianity was weird back in the early church. And there was lots of sexual hedonism then too. But the church prospered.

That's the challenge, isn't it? Not to feel defeated or feel like victims, but to be the church? Of course the world is worldly, that's not new.

We might reassure ourselves when we see the proliferating Nones among our youth that the reason they are leaving is because they want to run their own lives and pursue the sexual hedonism the church (rightly) forbids. Some of that is no doubt the case. But if one believes the Bible, one knows that wanting to run one’s own life is not a new development with modernity. And one need only know a little bit of high school biology to know that the desire for sexual hedonism didn’t start during the Obama administration. First-century Athens, Greece, was just as intellectually averse to Christianity as is twenty-first-century Athens, Georgia—and far more sexually “liberated” too. And the gospel went forth and the churches grew. The problem now is not that people think the church’s way of life is too demanding, too morally rigorous, but that they have come to think the church doesn’t believe its own moral teachings.

Moore, Russell. Losing Our Religion (pp. 43-44). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

[Ernie]

Might Russell Vought become the next chief of staff?

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/2 ... m-00142086

[Ken]

Might Russell Vought become the next chief of staff?

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/2 ... m-00142086

Personally I kind of doubt it. OMB is not a high profile administration job so despite the fawning article, I'm skeptical of how close Trump's OMB director was to the center of Trump world.

I mean, who knows, he could be. I have no idea. My larger point is that I think a whole lot of conservative activists are going to be very disappointed if Trump wins again and there is a second Trump administration. They are laying all these grand plans of a conservative takeover of the Federal government. But I don't think Trump actually really cares about any of that. Nor is he even a conservative in the normal sense of the term. He is a political opportunist who goes in whatever direction he thinks will benefit him politically. The MASSIVE Pandemic relief plan passed under Trump and the endless tariffs he promoted all his first term are not conservative policies. But Trump rammed them through because he thought they were politically beneficial. If there is one thing we know about Trump is that he does no one's bidding but his own.

I expect if we have a 2nd Trump Administration it will be full of Trump loyalists who are willing to do his bidding, and not doctrinaire conservatives who will implement some long-term restructuring of the Federal government. Especially since no matter who wins, they will be unlikely to have unified control over government and the ability to push through major legislation.

Honestly, no matter who wins, Biden or Trump, they will be almost instant lame ducks and the 2028 election will be starting up within months. There won't be any legislative honeymoon and by 2025 or 2026 we will be in full bore election mode for 2028 with the GUARANTEE of a slate of new and younger candidates on both the Republican and Democratic sides. A bunch of them will be Senators who will go into election mode not legislative mode so I expect the country to basically just tread water for most of the next administration while we wait for 2028.

Of course what do I know? Nothing special. But that is my prediction. So the 2024 election is really about who you want to be the lame duck caretaker government for the short period of time we will have before the 2028 campaign ramps up in earnest and new policy basically stops. So circle 2028 as the date that the country will really go in a new direction.

[Sudsy]

Sounds to me like some of these threads belong more in the 'Politics' forum where some of us can get away from the Trump and Biden critiques.