I was involved in the Pentecostal-Charismatic movement for a number of years and experienced many of the distinctives to that culture first hand. Some of those experiences are what led me away from it.KingdomBuilder wrote:Good link there. I don't listen to a wide variety of online teachers, but the only one I've ever heard mention things along those lines would be Greg Boyd.ohio jones wrote:You've probably heard of "name it and claim it." Visualization is "see it and be it."KingdomBuilder wrote:What is "visualization"?
Christian Fads
- gcdonner
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Re: Christian Fads
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Re: Christian Fads
gcdonner wrote:I was involved in the Pentecostal-Charismatic movement for a number of years and experienced many of the distinctives to that culture first hand. Some of those experiences are what led me away from it.
What exactly is it that these people are "visualizing"? Where is the line drawn between visualizing and simply having an imagination?
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- gcdonner
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Re: Christian Fads
Basically they were "creating" dreams and visions for the purpose of spiritual revelation and power. It becomes self serving if you can just dream up your own Jesus and make him come to life to speak to you. It became a means of spiritual control for some in the movement. God gives dreams and visions, but visualization was man's way of trying to create his own spiritual reality and claim his own direct revelations from God, but based on his own efforts. It literally becomes a work of law, not a receiving of grace.KingdomBuilder wrote:gcdonner wrote:I was involved in the Pentecostal-Charismatic movement for a number of years and experienced many of the distinctives to that culture first hand. Some of those experiences are what led me away from it.
What exactly is it that these people are "visualizing"? Where is the line drawn between visualizing and simply having an imagination?
The root word for both gift and grace is the same. The Spiritual gifts are literally graces of God, not something that we can imagineer or dream up. From my perspective it was an effort become like God... If you can create your own spiritual reality, do you need YHWH or his son Jesus? It led many people astray, not unlike the holy laughter movement, which was an other fad.
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- Josh
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Re: Christian Fads
When I see people with the "gift" of glossolalia (which I continue to assert is different than speaking in tongues in the N.T.) actually embrace the rest of Jesus' teachings, like not shooting people, loving your enemies, going to war, etc., perhaps then I will be more interested in what these "spiritual gifts" can do. Until then, I fear that many of these "spiritual gifts" are either frauds, delusions, or worse, are gifts from the wrong spiritual kingdom.gcdonner wrote:"Without faith it is impossible to please God..."
Nobody is making you believe it, but you will never prove it or disprove it any more than you can the born-again experience or any spiritual phenomenon. As long as you view it only from a "scientific" perspective, it will never be real for you. That is your choice.
Paul said to desire spiritual gifts...'nuff said.
I expect to see more fruits of the spirit.
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- gcdonner
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Re: Christian Fads
I have seen many folks like that, unfortunately, I guess you are in the wrong circles and watching the wrong TV programs...LOL (I don't have TV and haven't for30 years...)Josh wrote:When I see people with the "gift" of glossolalia (which I continue to assert is different than speaking in tongues in the N.T.) actually embrace the rest of Jesus' teachings, like not shooting people, loving your enemies, going to war, etc., perhaps then I will be more interested in what these "spiritual gifts" can do. Until then, I fear that many of these "spiritual gifts" are either frauds, delusions, or worse, are gifts from the wrong spiritual kingdom.gcdonner wrote:"Without faith it is impossible to please God..."
Nobody is making you believe it, but you will never prove it or disprove it any more than you can the born-again experience or any spiritual phenomenon. As long as you view it only from a "scientific" perspective, it will never be real for you. That is your choice.
Paul said to desire spiritual gifts...'nuff said.
I expect to see more fruits of the spirit.
How many Mennonites have you seen "loving their enemies"?
What Pentecostals have you seen shooting people?
Pretty generalized statements, Josh.
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- steve-in-kville
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Re: Christian Fads
Josh wrote:
"Christian" movies like Fireproof
Fireproof is a great movie. Kinda a Christian version of Backdraft or Ladder 49.
(I was a volly firefighter and EMT for many years. I'm allowed to have such opinions!!)
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- Josh
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Re: Christian Fads
I found its overall message concerning marriage quite disturbing. At the time, I wasn't a Christian, and watching it made me even less interested in whatever I thought Christianity was. I don't think threatening someone with violence who's trying to have an affair with your spouse is really the right path to a healthy marriage.steve-in-kville wrote:Josh wrote:
"Christian" movies like Fireproof
Fireproof is a great movie. Kinda a Christian version of Backdraft or Ladder 49.
(I was a volly firefighter and EMT for many years. I'm allowed to have such opinions!!)
As a drama without religious overtones though it was a good movie and entertaining.
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Re: Christian Fads
Personally, I've always had a problem with these fictional "Christian movies". There's just too much that's real about Christianity try make it into a fictional, commercialized film. I find is dangerous and unnecessary.Josh wrote:I found its overall message concerning marriage quite disturbing. At the time, I wasn't a Christian, and watching it made me even less interested in whatever I thought Christianity was. I don't think threatening someone with violence who's trying to have an affair with your spouse is really the right path to a healthy marriage.steve-in-kville wrote:Josh wrote:
"Christian" movies like Fireproof
Fireproof is a great movie. Kinda a Christian version of Backdraft or Ladder 49.
(I was a volly firefighter and EMT for many years. I'm allowed to have such opinions!!)
As a drama without religious overtones though it was a good movie and entertaining.
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- gcdonner
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Re: Christian Fads
That is a perspective from a believer, but what about a person who hasn't been challenged with Christianity? How many non-Christians have you personally reached out to? That it is doing what it does in Jesus' name, gets kudos from the KING, because as was said, "either way, Jesus is preached" (paraphrase).KingdomBuilder wrote: Personally, I've always had a problem with these fictional "Christian movies". There's just too much that's real about Christianity try make it into a fictional, commercialized film. I find is dangerous and unnecessary.
We cannon sit on the sidelines shooting arrows at those who are at least attempting to impact society at large, CAN WE?
Think about it...
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Re: Christian Fads
Indeed. Before I was a Christian I saw some such films and they really just turned me off more from the faith. But I've found I've got a different thought process, so maybe my assessment isn't a fair one to put out like I did.gcdonner wrote:That is a perspective from a believer, but what about a person who hasn't been challenged with Christianity? How many non-Christians have you personally reached out to? That it is doing what it does in Jesus' name, gets kudos from the KING, because as was said, "either way, Jesus is preached" (paraphrase).KingdomBuilder wrote: Personally, I've always had a problem with these fictional "Christian movies". There's just too much that's real about Christianity try make it into a fictional, commercialized film. I find is dangerous and unnecessary.
We cannon sit on the sidelines shooting arrows at those who are at least attempting to impact society at large, CAN WE?
Think about it...
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