Seekers Gathering 2018 long thread

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Seekers Gathering April 27-29, 2018 ???

 
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Ernie
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Re: Seekers Gathering 2018?

Post by Ernie »

Bootstrap wrote:
joshuabgood wrote:I'd like to hear Ernie, Dan, Wayne, or Mike or some other person (maybe Steve Brubaker), give a compelling vision of what conservative Anabaptism can be in the 2018. A sort of Harold Bender for the 2018.
I would be much more interested in several such presentations, with time to discuss them together. Instead of being presented with "the answer", I would rather have a chance to hear several possible answers with time to discern.

And ultimately, the question shouldn't be what conservative Anabaptism can be, but what Christianity is (as understood by Anabaptists).

History is useful for seeing how others have understood Christianity. When we look at the early Church or early Anabaptists, we should appreciate the variety of understandings they had, not force them into one mold if they don't quite fit. That's important if we really want to understand the ways they lived out their faith. We can learn from both Dutch Anabaptism and Swiss Anabaptism, from Sattler and Marpeck, and from various Apostolic fathers.

But biblical Christianity is the goal. And figuring out how we should best live it today.
This is consistent with what I've been hearing you say the last 10 years. If I am hearing correctly, what you outline here is a request to have a typical MN discussion in person rather than online.
You would be very welcome to organize such an event but that is not what I have in mind.

I'm looking for an event that will help seekers understand the worldview of conservative Anabaptists (particularly CAs who still retain some "Old Order sensibilities" to use Dan's term) and to become familiar with early Anabaptist thought. There are many seekers who have heard all they care to hear about "biblical Christianity" and are wanting to learn more about how conservative Anabaptists think.

Seekers who are looking for something akin to mainstream Anabaptism or "biblical Christianity" as defined by Evangelicals may not enjoy the event that I am envisioning.
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Josh
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Re: Seekers Gathering 2018?

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote:
joshuabgood wrote:I'd like to hear Ernie, Dan, Wayne, or Mike or some other person (maybe Steve Brubaker), give a compelling vision of what conservative Anabaptism can be in the 2018. A sort of Harold Bender for the 2018.
I would be much more interested in several such presentations, with time to discuss them together. Instead of being presented with "the answer", I would rather have a chance to hear several possible answers with time to discern.
I think this would be a good event, and is one that people who like to affiliate with EVANA, MC USA, the CMC, AMEC, BIC, Church of the Brethren, and other groups that like to identify as Anabaptist but do not necessarily uphold things like nonresistance or the veiling as Anabaptists have traditionally practised them. Boot, perhaps this is something you could start to put together? Many of us here would be interested.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Seekers Gathering 2018?

Post by Bootstrap »

Ernie wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:
joshuabgood wrote:I'd like to hear Ernie, Dan, Wayne, or Mike or some other person (maybe Steve Brubaker), give a compelling vision of what conservative Anabaptism can be in the 2018. A sort of Harold Bender for the 2018.
I would be much more interested in several such presentations, with time to discuss them together. Instead of being presented with "the answer", I would rather have a chance to hear several possible answers with time to discern.

And ultimately, the question shouldn't be what conservative Anabaptism can be, but what Christianity is (as understood by Anabaptists).

History is useful for seeing how others have understood Christianity. When we look at the early Church or early Anabaptists, we should appreciate the variety of understandings they had, not force them into one mold if they don't quite fit. That's important if we really want to understand the ways they lived out their faith. We can learn from both Dutch Anabaptism and Swiss Anabaptism, from Sattler and Marpeck, and from various Apostolic fathers.

But biblical Christianity is the goal. And figuring out how we should best live it today.
This is consistent with what I've been hearing you say the last 10 years. If I am hearing correctly, what you outline here is a request to have a typical MN discussion in person rather than online.
You would be very welcome to organize such an event but that is not what I have in mind.
Even if this is restricted to conservative Anabaptism thought, I would rather hear Ernie, Dan, Wayne, and Mike all present than hear just one of them. That doesn't mean you have to do it that way, I was expressing my preference.
Ernie wrote:I'm looking for an event that will help seekers understand the worldview of conservative Anabaptists (particularly CAs who still retain some "Old Order sensibilities" to use Dan's term) and to become familiar with early Anabaptist thought. There are many seekers who have heard all they care to hear about "biblical Christianity" and are wanting to learn more about how conservative Anabaptists think.
I see some variety within the views that Ernie, Dan, Wayne, and Mike present here. I also see some variety within the views of early Anabaptists.
Ernie wrote:Seekers who are looking for something akin to mainstream Anabaptism or "biblical Christianity" as defined by Evangelicals may not enjoy the event that I am envisioning.
You know, I'm pretty distant from liberation theology, the social gospel, welcoming and affirming churches, etc. I'm also pretty distant from mainstream Evangelicalism. That's why this is the main forum that I hang out on. I suspect neither mainstream Anabaptism and plain Anabaptism are fulfilling their calling right now. That's why I would like to see something new emerge. And I would like it to embody the parts of the Bible often neglected by other streams of Christianity.

I don't know if I would enjoy the event you are envisioning or not. I'm still listening and trying to get a feel for just exactly what it would be, and how welcoming it would be to someone like me. I would very much like to get together with other people from MN some time.
Last edited by Bootstrap on Wed May 17, 2017 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Seekers Gathering 2018?

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:
joshuabgood wrote:I'd like to hear Ernie, Dan, Wayne, or Mike or some other person (maybe Steve Brubaker), give a compelling vision of what conservative Anabaptism can be in the 2018. A sort of Harold Bender for the 2018.
I would be much more interested in several such presentations, with time to discuss them together. Instead of being presented with "the answer", I would rather have a chance to hear several possible answers with time to discern.
I think this would be a good event, and is one that people who like to affiliate with EVANA, MC USA, the CMC, AMEC, BIC, Church of the Brethren, and other groups that like to identify as Anabaptist but do not necessarily uphold things like nonresistance or the veiling as Anabaptists have traditionally practised them. Boot, perhaps this is something you could start to put together? Many of us here would be interested.
Possibly.

Ideally, I would like to see one gathering that can include both plain and non-plain Mennonites. And I have no idea how many other people are interested in the same things I am.
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Josh
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Re: Seekers Gathering 2018?

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote:
Josh wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:
I would be much more interested in several such presentations, with time to discuss them together. Instead of being presented with "the answer", I would rather have a chance to hear several possible answers with time to discern.
I think this would be a good event, and is one that people who like to affiliate with EVANA, MC USA, the CMC, AMEC, BIC, Church of the Brethren, and other groups that like to identify as Anabaptist but do not necessarily uphold things like nonresistance or the veiling as Anabaptists have traditionally practised them. Boot, perhaps this is something you could start to put together? Many of us here would be interested.
Possibly.

Ideally, I would like to see one gathering that can include both plain and non-plain Mennonites. And I have no idea how many other people are interested in the same things I am.
There's a fundamental disconnect between those of us who believe scripture teaches the veiling and that it should be practiced today, and those who do not.

If you can figure out how to bridge that gap, you could definitely organise a very good conference.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Seekers Gathering 2018?

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:There's a fundamental disconnect between those of us who believe scripture teaches the veiling and that it should be practiced today, and those who do not.

If you can figure out how to bridge that gap, you could definitely organise a very good conference.
Would bridging that gap first be necessary to have a useful conference together?

Would it be sufficient, or are there other gaps that would need to be bridged?
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Josh
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Re: Seekers Gathering 2018?

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote:
Josh wrote:There's a fundamental disconnect between those of us who believe scripture teaches the veiling and that it should be practiced today, and those who do not.

If you can figure out how to bridge that gap, you could definitely organise a very good conference.
Would bridging that gap first be necessary to have a useful conference together?

Would it be sufficient, or are there other gaps that would need to be bridged?
I think it's the biggest gap.

If someone sees no need to obey what is quite plain in 1 Co. 11, Matt. 5, and other places - basically, veiling, nonresistance, avoiding vanity (ie modesty), sharing with whoever has needs, preaching the gospel and baptising those who accept it, and fleeing sexual immorality, we aren't going to get very far. I don't have much fellowship with people who feel they can ignore one of those items I just listed. Most conservative Mennonites who are not Holdeman or AC add avoiding D&R to that list.
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joshuabgood
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Re: Seekers Gathering 2018?

Post by joshuabgood »

Josh wrote:I think it would be a good idea to keep this focused on what would help non-Mennonite background seekers, converts, or even those not yet converted.

There are a lot of seminars and conferences out there for MB people (and I am not at all opposed to having another one). The kind of people I would like to bring around will struggle a lot with complex theological topics, for example.
If you see the topics being different than the ones I listed (which were in my view some of the Anabaptist distinctives) what are the topics that you think should be discussed?

Just trying to ascertain what exactly will be happening/be being discussed.
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Seekers Gathering 2018?

Post by Wayne in Maine »

Bootstrap wrote:
Josh wrote:There's a fundamental disconnect between those of us who believe scripture teaches the veiling and that it should be practiced today, and those who do not.

If you can figure out how to bridge that gap, you could definitely organise a very good conference.
Would bridging that gap first be necessary to have a useful conference together?

Would it be sufficient, or are there other gaps that would need to be bridged?
The gap is not veiling, the gap is why veiling as opposed to why not. I would assert that the hermeneutic and worldview of early Anabaptism inevitably results in such practices as non-resistance, mutual aid (or community of goods), veiling, "plain-ness", etc. The gap is in the hermeneutic which many who call themselves "Anabaptists" by birthright or by adoption of certain ideas from mainline (ethnic) Mennonites and Brethren. Bridging the gap, in the end, requires an ecumenical approach where the very content, meaning and value of scripture is up for grabs.

I sense that what Ernie is trying to achieve is something more than a conference of anyone who wants to call themselves "Anabaptist", but a conference with a tangible link to the mindset of the mainstream primitive Anabaptists from whom Mennonites Amish and Hutterites are descended.
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Seekers Gathering 2018?

Post by Wayne in Maine »

joshuabgood wrote:
Josh wrote:I think it would be a good idea to keep this focused on what would help non-Mennonite background seekers, converts, or even those not yet converted.

There are a lot of seminars and conferences out there for MB people (and I am not at all opposed to having another one). The kind of people I would like to bring around will struggle a lot with complex theological topics, for example.
If you see the topics being different than the ones I listed (which were in my view some of the Anabaptist distinctives) what are the topics that you think should be discussed?

Just trying to ascertain what exactly will be happening/be being discussed.
My experience with seekers is that they (we) have a fundamental misunderstanding of historic Anabaptism as a worldview (I won't use the word theology!) that is distinctly different from Protestantism (few seekers are looking for a more consistent Roman Catholicism in Anabaptism). They tend to think in terms of Evangelical/Fundamentalist Protestant/Reformed theology and hermeneutics and philosophy. They expect that Anabaptism is just a stricter or more family-centric or less "worldly" practice of their own faith. And a lot of n'th generation "Conservative Anabaptists" have are descended from a progressive movement that assimilated much of the same Evangelical and Fundamentalist religious perspective.

A good topic that opens this box: "Why Anabaptist women must veil and why Evangelical women must not."
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