Josh wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:59 pm
Dunno what universe you live in, Ken, but in lots of places (like northern Virginia) kids have to be on the bus by 5am. It is often not light by that time of day, regardless of DST.
What school district in Virginia has kids on the bus at 5 am? If there are some then they are certainly outside the norm. I have sent my 3 kids to school on buses in 4 different school districts over the past nearly 20 years and I don’t think a single bus ever came by the house earlier than about 7:30 a.m. At the earliest some early routes might start their first pickup around 7 am. Certainly not 5.
It’s a major issue in large growing metro areas. School starts earlier and earlier (7am starts are normal in big cities now) because bus routes need to miss rush hour traffic. If you are stuck at the end of the bus route, your pick up time can be 5:30am. There have been various parent led movements to try to change this but it is just a reality of clogged traffic with gigantic centralised schools of 3,000+ students.
In any event, buses aren’t so much the issue as kids who don’t ride the bus but have to walk to school in the dark on unsafe roads. Which is the case for millions of kids around the country.
Nobody has to walk in the dark on a road. Urban areas have sidewalks. Where I live most parents drive or walk their kids to the end of their driveway. People in more compact subdivisions use the sidewalk to get to the pickup point.
I’m not sure why you are arguing the point. It is a simple fact that millions of kids have to walk to school every morning and millions more are outside waiting for the bus in the early mornings. Daylight savings or the lack of it has a direct effect on their safety. Is that reason enough to keep the current daylight savings time switch? I don’t know. I haven’t paid attention to all the arguments pro and con. I’m just pointing out that it is a very real safety issue with school kids and not one you can just hand-wave away.
It is a simple fact that research proves playing with clocks every year exacerbates seasonal affective disorder and actually kills people who suffer from anxiety and depression and increases a host of stress related illnesses.
Josh wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:59 pm
Dunno what universe you live in, Ken, but in lots of places (like northern Virginia) kids have to be on the bus by 5am. It is often not light by that time of day, regardless of DST.
Do you have a link or source for this? I googled it and could find nothing except kids in Dubai
I ran across it in (I think) The Atlantic. It’s a northern Virginia thing but is a problem anywhere farther north in a rapidly growing metro area with lots of suburbs.
Josh wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:59 pm
Dunno what universe you live in, Ken, but in lots of places (like northern Virginia) kids have to be on the bus by 5am. It is often not light by that time of day, regardless of DST.
Do you have a link or source for this? I googled it and could find nothing except kids in Dubai
I ran across it in (I think) The Atlantic. It’s a northern Virginia thing but is a problem anywhere farther north in a rapidly growing metro area with lots of suburbs.
That’s really interesting that it’s in an area like that. I suspected it would be rural.
Do you have a link or source for this? I googled it and could find nothing except kids in Dubai
I ran across it in (I think) The Atlantic. It’s a northern Virginia thing but is a problem anywhere farther north in a rapidly growing metro area with lots of suburbs.
That’s really interesting that it’s in an area like that. I suspected it would be rural.
Probably also a problem with not enough bus drivers (or buses) so they have to run double shifts each morning with buses taking kids to early-start schools on their first run and then returning to take kids to later start schools after the first drop-off. That's not a clock problem, that's a logistics and willingness to pay problem. It is probably harder to hire good bus drivers in wealthy suburban areas than in rural areas where farmers and housewives and such frequently do it as a part-time gig. I had an aunt in rural Michigan who drove school buses for 40 years while raising 4 kids.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
None of the above conversations would be necessary if y'all home schooled your children instead of sending them off to let the government indoctrinate them. Just sayn'.
3 x
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed
rightly dividing the word of truth.
Ken wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:42 pm
I'm agnostic about daylight savings time. It's just not something I waste much time worrying about. But I don't think school kids should be forced to walk to to school in the dark for 4 months out of the year on what are often very sketchy and dangerous streets that lack pedestrian amenities. Because as a nation we have largely failed to invest in them. Or because we can't figure out how to conduct public school during daylight hours.
Easily fixed by starting school later.
And now I hear that a nearby school district wants to start earlier so that kids have more time for after-school activities.
There are 24 hours in a day. Moving things around won't change that.
0 x
I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins
I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
Ken wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:42 pm
I'm agnostic about daylight savings time. It's just not something I waste much time worrying about. But I don't think school kids should be forced to walk to to school in the dark for 4 months out of the year on what are often very sketchy and dangerous streets that lack pedestrian amenities. Because as a nation we have largely failed to invest in them. Or because we can't figure out how to conduct public school during daylight hours.
Easily fixed by starting school later.
And now I hear that a nearby school district wants to start earlier so that kids have more time for after-school activities.
There are 24 hours in a day. Moving things around won't change that.
Exactly. Standard time is more or less the historic correct time in which 12-noon is actually mid-day when the sun is at its zenith. That is how things were for millennia. Of course that varies depending on where you are within a time zone. But it is supposed to be pretty close. Daylight savings time shifts mid-day later to about 1 pm.
None of this gives us a single nanosecond of extra daylight.
My preference would be to keep the traditional clock where noon actually falls at mid-day. But then I'm something of a morning person.
2 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Do you have a link or source for this? I googled it and could find nothing except kids in Dubai
I ran across it in (I think) The Atlantic. It’s a northern Virginia thing but is a problem anywhere farther north in a rapidly growing metro area with lots of suburbs.
That’s really interesting that it’s in an area like that. I suspected it would be rural.
Why would you think that? Big metro areas have horrific traffic which makes running buses difficult, and gigantic overcrowded schools. Unloading and loading busses of 3,000 pupil schools takes a while.
Rural areas usually have small towns and a school in that town and the surrounding people just go there.
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:31 amNobody has to walk in the dark on a road. Urban areas have sidewalks. Where I live most parents drive or walk their kids to the end of their driveway. People in more compact subdivisions use the sidewalk to get to the pickup point.
You have absolutely no idea how wrong this is.
Just to provide one very mundane and ordinary example, when my family and I lived in suburban TX we were 6 blocks from the local elementary school so too close for bus service and they expected kids to walk. It was just over 1/2 mile. The first block was within our subdivision where there were lights and sidewalks. These were the last 5 blocks to my daughter's elementary school.
Notice no sidewalks, crosswalks, and for the most part no streetlights.
That is pretty much typical of most of suburban Texas and much of the rest of the US. It is dangerous enough to have kids walking on such streets during daylight hours. I don't know why we would deliberately make them take such routes to school in pitch darkness during 4-5 months per year.
We didn't let our kids walk to school. My wife or I drove them. But many may families and kids don't have such luxuries. One of many many reasons whey we left Texas. Not everyone has the luxury to decide where they want to live or how their kids get to school.
Last edited by Ken on Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:31 amNobody has to walk in the dark on a road. Urban areas have sidewalks. Where I live most parents drive or walk their kids to the end of their driveway. People in more compact subdivisions use the sidewalk to get to the pickup point.
You have absolutely no idea how wrong this is.
Just to provide one very mundane and ordinary example, when my family and I lived in suburban TX we were 6 blocks from the local elementary school so too close for bus service and they expected kids to walk. It was just over 1/2 mile. The first block was within our subdivision where there were lights and sidewalks. These were the last 5 blocks to my daughter's elementary school.
Notice no sidewalks, crosswalks, and for the most part no streetlights.
That is pretty much typical of most of suburban Texas and much of the rest of the US. It is dangerous enough to have kids walking on such streets during daylight hours. I don't know why we would deliberately make them take such routes to school in pitch darkness during 4-5 months per year.
We didn't let our kids walk to school. My wife or I drove them. But many may families and kids don't have such luxuries.
Ken,
Very few people in suburbs are privileged enough to live a short walk from school. It seems in such cases a parent could walk with them. This is basically a non-issue.
In my town the people in town have crossing guards at intersections for families who live close to school. Other people drive or use the school bus.
In any case, moving clocks around isn’t the right answer.
