Global warming/climate change discussion

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Robert
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Re: Global warming/climate change discussion

Post by Robert »

PeterG wrote:Can you document this?
I will work on it.
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Re: Global warming/climate change discussion

Post by PeterG »

ken_sylvania wrote:According to "Greenhouse gases and greenhouse effect," an article published by G. V. Chilingar et. al. in Environmental Geology, the increased concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere should actually result in a net cooling effect.
Here's a rebuttal of that paper.

Here's a response to the rebuttal.
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Re: Global warming/climate change discussion

Post by ken_sylvania »

PeterG wrote:
ken_sylvania wrote:According to "Greenhouse gases and greenhouse effect," an article published by G. V. Chilingar et. al. in Environmental Geology, the increased concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere should actually result in a net cooling effect.
Here's a rebuttal of that paper.

Here's a response to the rebuttal.
The rebuttal is actually a rebuttal of another paper by Chilingar titled On global forces of nature driving the Earth's climate. Are humans involved? I believe the arguments are similar though.

In his response to the rebuttal, Chilingar details the water vapor cooling hypothesis that Robert referred to earlier.
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Re: Global warming/climate change discussion

Post by PeterG »

ken_sylvania wrote:The rebuttal is actually a rebuttal of another paper by Chilingar titled On global forces of nature driving the Earth's climate. Are humans involved?
Whoops! Thanks for pointing out my error.
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Robert
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Re: Global warming/climate change discussion

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ken_sylvania wrote: In his response to the rebuttal, Chilingar details the water vapor cooling hypothesis that Robert referred to earlier.
Problem solved. 8-)
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Re: Global warming/climate change discussion

Post by ken_sylvania »

Robert wrote:
ken_sylvania wrote: In his response to the rebuttal, Chilingar details the water vapor cooling hypothesis that Robert referred to earlier.
Problem solved. 8-)
Hey, wait a minute! You can't have off so easy. No copying off of the professor's work now! :P :P :P
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Re: Global warming/climate change discussion

Post by Bootstrap »

Robert wrote:
JimFoxvog wrote:The prediction is a change much faster than is believed to have happened in the distant past, making it much harder for migration and natural selection to compensate for it.
2-10 degrees C in 100 years is not fast. This is in tract to what has happened before. This is in tract to a year to year variance we have now.
Both Christy and Emanuel felt that the high end of this range would be a real problem if it happened this fast.

And please don't confuse local variations in weather with the overall temperature of the planet. If Indiana has a warm summer, that is not what scientists mean by climate change. And even in local weather, 18 degrees Fahrenheit warmer on average all year long would be a big change. But if that were the entire planet, it's much more significant.

Yes, human life would continue. But some nations like Bangladesh would no longer exist, and a whole lot of things would change very quickly.
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Robert
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Re: Global warming/climate change discussion

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Bootstrap wrote: And please don't confuse local variations in weather with the overall temperature of the planet. If Indiana has a warm summer, that is not what scientists mean by climate change. And even in local weather, 18 degrees warmer on average all year long would be a big change.
Last winter we had -0F degrees most the winter. This winter we had +20F most the winter. Tell me why that is manageable by the environment, but a 10 degree change over 100 years is not.
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Re: Global warming/climate change discussion

Post by Bootstrap »

Robert wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:And please don't confuse local variations in weather with the overall temperature of the planet. If Indiana has a warm summer, that is not what scientists mean by climate change. And even in local weather, 18 degrees warmer on average all year long would be a big change.
Last winter we had -0F degrees most the winter. This winter we had +20F most the winter. Tell me why that is manageable by the environment, but a 10 degree change over 100 years is not.
This is exactly the confusion I was talking about. The average global temperature was neither 0F nor +20F during the winter.

And here's a fundamental issue with these debates. To discuss the topic, we really need to read and understand what the scientists are saying. You cannot refute what they say without doing that first. I'm tempted to say that we need a thread where only people who have passed a basic comprehension test can participate.

It's not that different from claims people make about biblical Greek or any other area of expertise. It's really easy and tempting to loudly claim to know more than the people who understand a subject. I'm not convinced it's wise. In any subject, the first step is to assume you don't know, there is a lot to learn, and it will take time and effort to learn it.
Last edited by Bootstrap on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Global warming/climate change discussion

Post by Valerie »

Bootstrap wrote: I'm tempted to say that we need a thread where only people who have passed a basic comprehension test can participate.
It seems you already gave in to temptation- and said it- ;)
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