Intermediate vs Moderate
Intermediate vs Moderate
What is the difference between intermediate and moderate conservative groups and how do they differ from other conservatives? (Besides the obvious; "less strict").
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Re: Intermediate vs Moderate
Are these broadly used terms? I have never heard of intermediate Mennos.
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Re: Intermediate vs Moderate
I've spent a matter of months each at both a more-progressive moderate and a conservative-for-its-conference intermediate church. (Not hopping churches so much as changing geographic location for other reasons.) So I'm not sure how far my observations generalize.
That said...
Some "more strict"/"less strict" items (Not for Haystack, but maybe for others):
- Moderates (maybe the more progressive moderates?) would tend to allow hanging veils in addition to kapps and store-bought clothing for women. The intermediates I know don't.
- Moderates would tend to allow pullover shirts (e.g., polo shirts) for men; the intermediates I know don't.
- In the moderate church I attend there are several men in plain suits on Sunday mornings; in the intermediate church all the men are in plain suits.
Some more vision-oriented things:
- I think that moderates would have a higher range of reading material. I think it was on (the old) MD that I read something to the effect of, "John Coblentz (moderate) writes these books on Christian living, which are devoured by intermediates and ultras, while the moderates themselves are reading the evangelical Protestants."
- In my experience, moderates and fundamentals talk about "getting the heart of their children." Intermediates and ultras talk about "Biblical child training" and may view negatively the idea of "getting the heart of their children" as an end in itself.
- Certain CLP tracts end with a "sinner's prayer." I noticed that the intermediates I fellowship with seemed not to use these tracts, but did use others from CLP. Maybe the moderates would use the sinner's prayer ones?
I am interested in more of the vision-oriented things as well.
That said...
Some "more strict"/"less strict" items (Not for Haystack, but maybe for others):
- Moderates (maybe the more progressive moderates?) would tend to allow hanging veils in addition to kapps and store-bought clothing for women. The intermediates I know don't.
- Moderates would tend to allow pullover shirts (e.g., polo shirts) for men; the intermediates I know don't.
- In the moderate church I attend there are several men in plain suits on Sunday mornings; in the intermediate church all the men are in plain suits.
Some more vision-oriented things:
- I think that moderates would have a higher range of reading material. I think it was on (the old) MD that I read something to the effect of, "John Coblentz (moderate) writes these books on Christian living, which are devoured by intermediates and ultras, while the moderates themselves are reading the evangelical Protestants."
- In my experience, moderates and fundamentals talk about "getting the heart of their children." Intermediates and ultras talk about "Biblical child training" and may view negatively the idea of "getting the heart of their children" as an end in itself.
- Certain CLP tracts end with a "sinner's prayer." I noticed that the intermediates I fellowship with seemed not to use these tracts, but did use others from CLP. Maybe the moderates would use the sinner's prayer ones?
I am interested in more of the vision-oriented things as well.
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"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."
Re: Intermediate vs Moderate
Look here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=147Haystack wrote:What is the difference between intermediate and moderate conservative groups and how do they differ from other conservatives? (Besides the obvious; "less strict").
I have a book used and recommended by ultra-conservatives(NWF and Eastern I have been around) called - "Turning the Hearts of the Children."cmbl wrote:- In my experience, moderates and fundamentals talk about "getting the heart of their children." Intermediates and ultras talk about "Biblical child training" and may view negatively the idea of "getting the heart of their children" as an end in itself.
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Re: Intermediate vs Moderate
Thank you Wade, that is exactly the info I was looking for.Wade wrote:Look here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=147Haystack wrote:What is the difference between intermediate and moderate conservative groups and how do they differ from other conservatives? (Besides the obvious; "less strict").
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Re: Intermediate vs Moderate
What??? We had a whole thread on them on MD.Sunbeam wrote:Are these broadly used terms? I have never heard of intermediate Mennos.
Go to the link above for more info.
Nobody uses this term except for those of us who have adopted Stephen Scott's terms.
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Re: Intermediate vs Moderate
Not sure what you meant by this.cmbl wrote:I am interested in more of the vision-oriented things as well.
Here are some thoughts on comparative vision if this is what you are after.
Ultras have very few options for evangelism and ministries as staff and volunteers are typically "called by the church" to do these things. Many ultras would be glad to volunteer or get involved in various endeavors but are prohibited from doing so.
About the only think a person can volunteer for is disaster response and then it must be done under church approval.
Intermediates have plenty of mission and outreach things they can be involved in but they are only allowed to participate in approved endeavors.
Moderates have a very wide range of options available to them, but many of them are playing sports and taking vacations and so only the committed folks take the initiative to be involved in evangelism and ministries. Kid's clubs and short-term missions trips are the most common things that the youth are involved in. Many youth also do a term of voluntary service somewhere before settling down to the normal American routines.
Fundamentals have an even wider range of options available to them including serving with Protestant organizations. I don't know what are the most common visions for folks in these settings.
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
Re: Intermediate vs Moderate
I believe we are considered ultra or is it old order? We have people working in Haiti and have had people in Liberia with CAM. The young men have been on mission trips, delivering Bibles. Some of the single middle aged ladies have been on short term mission trips. They get the blessing of their home ministry but not conference level approval.
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Re: Intermediate vs Moderate
You'll have to contact me (PM) with you name and/or church affiliation.Hats Off wrote:I believe we are considered ultra or is it old order?
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"