Safe Zones and Refugees

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
temporal1
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Re: Safe Zones and Refugees

Post by temporal1 »

boot, is anyone telling you to stop doing as you are? as i read, not to my understanding.
on the other hand, you seem determined to pressure others to follow you; if not, they are wrong, less-than, have ulterior motives, are not Christian, etc.

is this really the message you want to relay?
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Bootstrap
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Re: Safe Zones and Refugees

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:boot, is anyone telling you to stop doing as you are? as i read, not to my understanding.
on the other hand, you seem determined to pressure others to follow you; if not, they are wrong, less-than, have ulterior motives, are not Christian, etc.

is this really the message you want to relay?
No, that isn't the message I want to relay.

I certainly don't think everyone needs to work with refugees, not everyone has the same calling.

But Christians in all circles I have been part of have always cared a lot about refugees and our role in helping them. And sometimes I'm feeling a level of callousness here that surprises and concerns me. Real families are separated by the executive order, 50 refugees who were coming to homes with partners in our area's churches were prevented from coming. (The executive order has been temporarily reversed, some of them may be able to come in now. That's a good thing.)

There are some basic facts that I think people need to know - what is currently being done in various countries, what a safe zone is, what a refugee is, what a resettlement program is, the fact that no refugee and nobody from these countries has committed a terrorist act here, the way that refugees are screened, etc. I do think that some things are facts and some things are not, and in a discussion, we need to be able to look at facts together to determine what is true and what is not.

And as Christians, I think it is important to ask what we are going to do, not just speculate about things that could, in theory, be done. There are already programs aimed at helping people in other countries, we don't need to build them from scratch. If that's what someone has a heart for, they can donate or volunteer.

But to me, some of this discussion really does seem to imply "we don't want them here". It doesn't seem to be calling us to do anything at all for them, it implies that there's no need to do that because something else could, in theory, be done for them. And it does not call people to help that other thing happen. There are no safe ones in Syria. Safe zones did not work in Bosnia or in Kurdish Iraq. I don't know that anyone here really wants to establish them.
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Josh
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Re: Safe Zones and Refugees

Post by Josh »

Exactly how unsafe is Damascus?
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temporal1
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Re: Safe Zones and Refugees

Post by temporal1 »

Games People Play
http://www.ericberne.com/games-people-p ... u-yes-but/

this book discusses dialogue games people inadvertantly engage in.
the "Yes, but" game is a common one.

i would have to re-read the book, "Yes, but" is one dialogue game i remember reading about.
when this book was published, it was "a thing." :dance:
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Robert
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Re: Safe Zones and Refugees

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Bootstrap wrote: In the United States, I do think most Arab Christians and Muslims assimilate. You just don't see many 2nd generation Arabs with head coverings.
I knew many in the town I lived in.
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Robert
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Re: Safe Zones and Refugees

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Bootstrap wrote: The melting pot is certainly a big deal. And it's been a concern for many ethnic groups emigrating to America for many years. My own family lived in a German speaking community and did not want to lose its cultural identity and language, but it did. My roommate in college was Ukranian, and his grandparents refused to speak English with their family. That helped me learn some Ukranian, but the third generation no longer speaks it. Immigrants try hard to preserve their culture. In Canada, they do a better job of preserving it, Canada is more of a salad bowl than a melting pot. America is a melting pot.
This is some of my concern. The US culture can suck the life out of things and dumb things down a lot.
But would it have been more humane to tell the German, Irish, Chinese, South American and other migrants that they may not come to this country? Is it more humane to tell them that they cannot decide where they prefer to raise their children? We cannot allow everyone who wants to into the country, I agree with that, but refugees have good reason to leave, and we take only a small percent of refugees as it is.
The more humane thing would be to allow them to live in peace where ever they choose to live. If the world was so simple ...
For refugees, the question may well be basic safety for their families. And if one family comes for basic safety, their close relatives may also want to come so that their extended family is not broken up.
And that is not always possible, so it breaks up the family, bonds and support systems they have. Do not get me wrong, I am not saying what you are doing is wrong. I am saying the system is wrong and it frustrates me.
Bootstrap wrote:There are some basic facts that I think people need to know - what is currently being done in various countries, what a safe zone is, what a refugee is, what a resettlement program is, the fact that no refugee and nobody from these countries has committed a terrorist act here, the way that refugees are screened, etc.
Maybe it is the way you are doing these things that is causing some, not all, of the push back. I run into this personally all the time. I can get very passionate about things and I have been misunderstood as being pushy and domineering. As I said before, I have no issue with what you are doing, but I also understand the feelings of people on the other side. I think some are feeling you only see it one way. I, again, get accused of that when I become passionate about things. We all have filters and we choose to see and ignore differing aspects of things. There is a real fear and anger in our culture presently with good reason. No, we should not let fear and anger stop us, but I have learned from my wife and children, that I do need to hear theirs, recognize it, and maybe slow a little to let them process and catch up. Culture turns slowly. Fear and anger must be dealt with our the backlash is a President Trump.
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ohio jones
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Re: Safe Zones and Refugees

Post by ohio jones »

Josh wrote:Exactly how unsafe is Damascus?
Damascus is under the control of the Syrian government, but opposition forces are nearby. There has been fighting in Wadi Barada, about 15 miles away, for the last month.
Al Jazeera wrote:January 29: About 5.5 million in Damascus and its suburbs have been without water since December 22.

The Syrian conflict started as an uprising against President Bashar al-Assad in March 2011. It subsequently escalated into a full-scale civil war that has left hundreds of thousands of people dead and more than half the country's pre-war population displaced.
BBC wrote:January 12: A suspected suicide bomber has killed at least seven people in a high security area of the Syrian capital, Damascus.
Israeli air strikes were reported in the outskirts of Damascus on November 30 and December 7.

Seems to me it's at least moderately unsafe.
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