Horse Diapers and Freedom of Religion

[MaxPC]

personally, i prefer the Amish to be protected, i.e., their deeply-held religious beliefs respected.
but, then, i prefer them to make a free choice to attempt to be courteous to their neighbors.

just because we can do things legally, by human law, doesn't mean we should.
whichever side we happen to fall on.

Well said.

X2.

[appleman2006]

RZehr that idea only works if there are at least two in the buggy.

Or if the horse is well trained. I've seen some who can drop the reins, and the buggy horse stands still, like work horses do.

Maybe a very well trained horse on a back road. I would never want to see someone do that on most of our roads around here. The chance of even a well trained docile horse spooking and running out in front of a vehicle is way too great.

[appleman2006]

RZehr that idea only works if there are at least two in the buggy.

I didn't know that. I figured one guy could do it.

It is not quite as simple as putting a car in park. The horse does have a mind of it's own.

[JimFoxvog]

as a bunny trail, pets are one of the reasons i question global warming.
if global warming was to be taken seriously, pet ownership would be in question, as well as "no kill shelters."

Yes, global warming is one reason I personally question pet ownership. Just usually not out loud as I do not seek to make enemies. Pets are often regarded as family members.

[Valerie]

as a bunny trail, pets are one of the reasons i question global warming.
if global warming was to be taken seriously, pet ownership would be in question, as well as "no kill shelters."

Yes, global warming is one reason I personally question pet ownership. Just usually not out loud as I do not seek to make enemies. Pets are often regarded as family members.

Could someone please enlighten me in regards to pets contributing to 'supposed' global warming? What about them adds to the global warming? I'm not familiar with all the data regarding global warming as I haven't taken the time to research & understand it- but pets? how do they add to the problem?

[JimFoxvog]

Could someone please enlighten me in regards to pets contributing to 'supposed' global warming? What about them adds to the global warming? I'm not familiar with all the data regarding global warming as I haven't taken the time to research & understand it- but pets? how do they add to the problem?

Good question. In the US, about $60 billion a year is estimated to be spent on pets. Much of that is for food. That requires tractors, fertilizers, transportation -- all of which add to the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Other pet products similarly add to the CO2.

An environmentalist slogan is "reduce, reuse, recycle." I see the corollary regarding pets to be have fewer or none. But if they are fed table scraps or feed themselves and other resources are not greatly spent on them, it fits the creed better. Pets are very comforting to some. Human comforting is better, but we are not always good at that in this culture.

[Valerie]

Could someone please enlighten me in regards to pets contributing to 'supposed' global warming? What about them adds to the global warming? I'm not familiar with all the data regarding global warming as I haven't taken the time to research & understand it- but pets? how do they add to the problem?

Good question. In the US, about $60 billion a year is estimated to be spent on pets. Much of that is for food. That requires tractors, fertilizers, transportation -- all of which add to the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Other pet products similarly add to the CO2.

An environmentalist slogan is "reduce, reuse, recycle." I see the corollary regarding pets to be have fewer or none. But if they are fed table scraps or feed themselves and other resources are not greatly spent on them, it fits the creed better. Pets are very comforting to some. Human comforting is better, but we are not always good at that in this culture.

Thank you! I appreciate the information & gives you a lot to think about-
Pets are very comforting to some- one thing I have considered (and I do love dogs/cats/birds-etc) is that so many USE pets for their comfort that might otherwise see their need for the Lord, and the Holy Spirit- "the Comforter".
(guess you'd call this a 'horsey trail' )

[Valerie]

....
It's much easier to clean up after your dog while you are walking it. It's not realistic for an Amish driver (which would be both men and women) to be aware when their horse relieves itself and OFTEN it is in a busier area (as in where Neto lives) so totally unrealistic to expect the Amish to stop, pull over, go clean it up in moving traffic-in many cases in these busier areas, it would be impossible to do that- I can't picture that being done in area's like Neto's (Berlin, Holmes County). It would be hard not to agree with Ernie, that they were there first- but-
what is the big issue with the horse diapers for Amish-
Religious persecution aside- what is the 'cons' of these horse diapers?

Granted that it would be more difficult to clean up after a horse than to clean up after a dog. But they know when the horse is about to leave the presents behind. Like, the horse's nether regions are right there in front of them, and the horse always raises its tail before .... Well, you get the idea. Also, a horse will invariably do this when it has slowed down, not on a full trot.
[A picture comes to my mind from my childhood. My grandpa was an old world farmer. He kept his barn and lane cleaned up. The barn was just a dirt floor, and if while milking he saw that a cow was about to dump a pile, or urinate, he jumped up and grabbed a bucket to catch it. And when he walked out to get the cows in for milking, he always carried a shovel with him, and threw the manure off of the lane over the fence into the cultivated field. And this was the lane that went through the pasture. Another picture that comes to mind is of a calf in a barn here in Holmes County, walking around in liquid manure 8 or 10 inches deep.]

That is terribly sad- I don't know if Amish do or don't deserve their reputation for not caring for their animals, if the example you give is common, then I understand the reputation- if it is an exception- what can be done about it?

[temporal1]

as a bunny trail, pets are one of the reasons i question global warming.
if global warming was to be taken seriously, pet ownership would be in question, as well as "no kill shelters."

Yes, global warming is one reason I personally question pet ownership.

Just usually not out loud as I do not seek to make enemies.

Pets are often regarded as family members.

(i'm trying to keep my posts down to 1 daily. struggling with that.)

there are many obvious "logic holes" in the global warming movement, certainly leaders violate logic on a grand scale, with private jets, mansions, yachts, materialism beyond description.

if these folks truly felt threatened, they would run from these things for "all their worth;" that's what real people do under real threat of (extinction?) ..

luxury animals are just one "logic hole," and, certainly one that carries the potential of huge social+legal ramifications. it's not possible to exaggerate today's reality.

as folks have moved away from the farming culture, and, as interpersonal human relationships of all description suffer, many seriously look to humanize animals in all ways, including financially, and, legally.

the money dedicated to these indulgences cannot be overstated.
for instance, if half of this money were to be dedicated to well-managed missions, what a vast difference it would make.

New Zealand, and, Quebec / sentient beings
http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2015/06/new- ... nt-beings/
(a quick google search provides many links on this topic, this is just an example.)

i began to recognize how big this topic is, and, how deeply emotional (and ignorant) people are about humanizing all animals, as i've read various news reports, AND COMMENTS, over years.

it becomes clear, animal lobbies and activists have influence and power in western courts that eclipses many human rights, esp rights of the human unborn, human children and human young people; but not confined to those.

i'm afraid, it's beyond the point of idol worship in many cases.
idol worship being of the gravest sins.

The topic of the many "logic holes" in the global warming debate deserves its own thread.
i didn't imagine there would be any reply to it here, i won't begin a thread, this is just to respond a bit on it.

For Christians, God certainly does command we care for our beautiful earth and the marvelous animals herein; to be good stewards. Not to the point of idol worship.

[Neto]

[.... Another picture that comes to mind is of a calf in a barn here in Holmes County, walking around in liquid manure 8 or 10 inches deep.]

That is terribly sad- I don't know if Amish do or don't deserve their reputation for not caring for their animals, if the example you give is common, then I understand the reputation- if it is an exception- what can be done about it?

Sorry, I should have made it clear that it was not an Amish farm.