Horse Diapers and Freedom of Religion

[Bootstrap]

Maybe that is what the Amish should do. If they don't like the horse diapers, then maybe they can scoop up the manure and toss it in the ditch or in a box and take it with them. That would be awfully inconvenient, but inconvenience doesn't seem to bother them much.

It's really a question of who it is inconvenient for. It's inconvenient for someone who lives in the city to do that if the Amish leave it behind, it's inconvenient for the Amish.

At home, I have a 1/2 acre of yard fenced in for the dogs and a 1 acre lot, but if I take them for a walk along the sidewalk, I clean up after them. This feels analogous to me.

[Josh]

Cars were heralded as the solution to Manhattan's environmental problems around 1900 caused by thousands of horses.

Of course, we see how that turned out.

[Valerie]

Interesting case- I am familiar with Jesus words' about rendering to Caesar what is Caesar's and other passages in New Testament encouraging abiding by laws unless that requires you to put man above law- in this case, if it became enough of a problem for others that they had to make it a law, then it seems Amish should comply- it's not a 'religious' persecution as they suggest or are implying in the article. Swartzentrubers tend to always take these things that way it seems, as persecution.

In our county where they live, I am surprised that there is not more manure lying on the road- and as we frequent the area Neto lives, I am surprised to not witness more of it. I have noticed, crows appreciate the feast the horses leave behind, maybe nature takes care of nature, but not fast enough for men to not be inconvenienced.

It's much easier to clean up after your dog while you are walking it. It's not realistic for an Amish driver (which would be both men and women) to be aware when their horse relieves itself and OFTEN it is in a busier area (as in where Neto lives) so totally unrealistic to expect the Amish to stop, pull over, go clean it up in moving traffic-in many cases in these busier areas, it would be impossible to do that- I can't picture that being done in area's like Neto's (Berlin, Holmes County). It would be hard not to agree with Ernie, that they were there first- but-
what is the big issue with the horse diapers for Amish-
Religious persecution aside- what is the 'cons' of these horse diapers?

[temporal1]

Maybe that is what the Amish should do.
If they don't like the horse diapers, then maybe they can scoop up the manure and toss it in the ditch or in a box and take it with them.

That would be awfully inconvenient, but inconvenience doesn't seem to bother them much.

you've touched on the important part of it.
deeply held religious convictions can be of the utmost "inconvenience," Jesus certainly exemplified this with His very existence among us. faith convictions can be difficult, or impossible, for others to understand .. thus, legal protections exist for them.

Valerie,
your points about traffic are valid.
it's entirely possible, if "the Englishers" had to consider this, or learn to live with it, they would quickly withdraw their former complaints.

i repeat my hope that the world would move away from seeking-after human law for all answers, and, that all, Amish+English, would turn to neighborly courtesy rather than force of law.

i think this is one hope many have under the new gov administration, that there will be less litigation, more common sense. (common horse sense?)

[Bootstrap]

it's entirely possible, if "the Englishers" had to consider this, or learn to live with it, they would quickly withdraw their former complaints.

i repeat my hope that the world would move away from seeking-after human law for all answers, and, that all, Amish+English, would turn to neighborly courtesy rather than force of law.

Exactly.

i think this is one hope many have under the new gov administration, that there will be less litigation, more common sense. (common horse sense?)

Less litigation isn't something I would expect from Trump, based on his history so far.

Trump's 3,500 lawsuits unprecedented for a presidential nominee.

The Lawsuits of Donald Trump

Over the past decade, as William D. Cohan reports in the April Atlantic, the mogul has sued a book author, a Miss USA contestant, a comedian, and global financial institutions. A round-up of his most noteworthy recent suits.

[Neto]

....
It's much easier to clean up after your dog while you are walking it. It's not realistic for an Amish driver (which would be both men and women) to be aware when their horse relieves itself and OFTEN it is in a busier area (as in where Neto lives) so totally unrealistic to expect the Amish to stop, pull over, go clean it up in moving traffic-in many cases in these busier areas, it would be impossible to do that- I can't picture that being done in area's like Neto's (Berlin, Holmes County). It would be hard not to agree with Ernie, that they were there first- but-
what is the big issue with the horse diapers for Amish-
Religious persecution aside- what is the 'cons' of these horse diapers?

Granted that it would be more difficult to clean up after a horse than to clean up after a dog. But they know when the horse is about to leave the presents behind. Like, the horse's nether regions are right there in front of them, and the horse always raises its tail before .... Well, you get the idea. Also, a horse will invariably do this when it has slowed down, not on a full trot.
[A picture comes to my mind from my childhood. My grandpa was an old world farmer. He kept his barn and lane cleaned up. The barn was just a dirt floor, and if while milking he saw that a cow was about to dump a pile, or urinate, he jumped up and grabbed a bucket to catch it. And when he walked out to get the cows in for milking, he always carried a shovel with him, and threw the manure off of the lane over the fence into the cultivated field. And this was the lane that went through the pasture. Another picture that comes to mind is of a calf in a barn here in Holmes County, walking around in liquid manure 8 or 10 inches deep.]

[temporal1]

pets are luxury animals, their excrement is not useful for anything (i know of, other than producing methane gas.)

as a bunny trail, pets are one of the reasons i question global warming.
if global warming was to be taken seriously, pet ownership would be in question, as well as "no kill shelters."

i've had many pets in my life, that i/we enjoyed tremendously.
they are an expense, a luxury, and, they do produce a lot of methane gas.

the animal rights lobbies are powerful. "the math" on these issues does not add up.
the pet industry is huge in developed countries.

not to confuse, some domesticated animals are working animals.

[PeterG]

my first hope is for this case to be thrown out of the higher courts, thrown out of the lower courts, dismissed without creating/passing human law.

If I understand correctly, it would be a defeat for the Amish if the case would be thrown out. They are the ones who filed the suit.

[temporal1]

my first hope is for this case to be thrown out of the higher courts, thrown out of the lower courts, dismissed without creating/passing human law.

If I understand correctly, it would be a defeat for the Amish if the case would be thrown out. They are the ones who filed the suit.

see how twisted things get?
i'm sharing a general fantasy, not attempting to apply it to this case.

but, regarding this, from my little understanding, the case would go back to lower courts for judgment? it could, presumably, be thrown out?

personally, i prefer the Amish to be protected, i.e., their deeply-held religious beliefs respected.
but, then, i prefer them to make a free choice to attempt to be courteous to their neighbors.

just because we can do things legally, by human law, doesn't mean we should.
whichever side we happen to fall on.

this happens a lot, that people choose "the higher road."
sadly, these cases do not grab headlines.

[PeterG]

personally, i prefer the Amish to be protected, i.e., their deeply-held religious beliefs respected.
but, then, i prefer them to make a free choice to attempt to be courteous to their neighbors.

just because we can do things legally, by human law, doesn't mean we should.
whichever side we happen to fall on.

Well said.