Genealogy

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
temporal1
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Re: Genealogy

Post by temporal1 »

haithabu wrote:
temporal1 wrote:Any French-Canadians present?
Most French-Canadians are descended from these 800 women
http://www.cbc.ca/2017/canadathestoryof ... -1.4029699
My wife is French Canadian.
i thot you might respond. :D
does your wife know of this history? is she interested?

when we lived in Vermont, we met lots of French-Canadians living there. i worked with one woman who was near retirement, i was very young. i learned from her. she had never married, was Catholic (of course) .. she studied her family's genealogy as a true hobby. she continued after she retired. at one point, years later, i learned she had recorded different pieces in the Library of Congress on her family. i did not study her family. i observed her interest and passion for her studies.

i learned some tips from her .. like, how bizarre family surnames can be, i.e., how they can be stretched+changed, even replaced, intentionally, or by pure accident.

in her time away from work she would visit recorders' offices and churches, digging+digging for details. all that was in the very early 70's, no computers of any sort available.

it was also when Quebec was fighting over language, it could be hostile to visit Montreal.
she was bilingual.

the folks we met were family oriented, big families, Catholic.
lots of good memories from those years.

my family lived in Montreal for 2 years, 2008-10. when i visited, we drove into Vermont.
it has changed quite a lot. so many big roads! highways.
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Genealogy

Post by Wayne in Maine »

temporal1 wrote:Any French-Canadians present?
Most French-Canadians are descended from these 800 women
http://www.cbc.ca/2017/canadathestoryof ... -1.4029699
My grandmother was French Canadian and Micmac. She lost her father at sea and was sent to live with relatives in the US when she was 16.
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temporal1
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Re: Genealogy

Post by temporal1 »

Wayne in Maine wrote:
temporal1 wrote:Any French-Canadians present?
Most French-Canadians are descended from these 800 women
http://www.cbc.ca/2017/canadathestoryof ... -1.4029699
My grandmother was French Canadian and Micmac. She lost her father at sea and was sent to live with relatives in the US when she was 16.
Little did i know when reading this, there is a Nova Scotia Micmac connection in my family. :D

Wayne, if you see this, if i may ask, where were your MicMac relatives located?
we lived in Vermont for a few years, early 1970’s, i “auto-connect” French Canadians with Quebec,
but, now i believe this is an error on my part, rooted in Quebec’s 1970’s decision to choose French as their province language.

Page 9
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 358#p49358
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Wade
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Re: Genealogy

Post by Wade »

temporal1 wrote:Any French-Canadians present?
Most French-Canadians are descended from these 800 women
http://www.cbc.ca/2017/canadathestoryof ... -1.4029699
Interesting, thanks for sharing. My grandmother on my moms side was French Canadian going a ways back I am told.
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Neto
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Re: Genealogy

Post by Neto »

I've sorta' got into this again lately, mostly because when we were going through our parents' house last summer (cleaning it out to be sold) my older brother put all of the genealogy stuff on "my pile". So now I'm looking at this stuff, some 'books' put together by somewhat distant relatives of my mom. Ever notice how, if someone is following their surname, all of the wives, brothers & sisters just get left out? But boy oh boy would it get complicated to organize that if you attempt to follow them all back. We used to go to a Plett family reunion - all the descendants of one Michael Plett, who was born in the Mennonite colony in Czarist Russia (in what is now eastern Ukraine) in around 1823. Already when I was in HS, it was a gathering of up to my 5th cousins. That sort of organization is probably more manageable to put into a book form, but the "out-laws" still all get left out, at least anything beyond their own name & birthdate. (The Plett family relation is on my Dad's side, but some of my first cousins on my Mom's side are my Dad's 4th cousins. Well, actually half 4th cousins, because the afore-mentioned Michael Plett had a second family after his first wife died, and my Mom's brother married a descendant of the first wife, and we are from the second wife.)
But really, what's the point of all of this? Most of these lists are no more than lists of names, birth & death dates. There were, however, some of my relatives on my Mom's side who did not come to the States. Some escaped into China during the last months of WWII, others were exiled to Siberia in Stalin's 'cleansing', others fled with the Nazi army & went to Brazil & other countries in South America. Others stayed in Russia, then the USSR, and some are probably still there. Those are the stories I would like to hear - how it went for them. (Mostly not very well, unfortunately.) (These were all Mennonites. We have never gotten far enough back to find anyone who wasn't, except perhaps the child found under a tree in the Mennonite colony in what was then known as The Ukraine. Spiritual conditions during that period were very poor, and some young men fathered children with their parents' Ukrainian servant girls.)
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Joy
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Re: Genealogy

Post by Joy »

Recently visited a former pastor from our county, and his wife was telling us about her family. She had always heard that her great-uncle (I think) had died of lead poisoning. But someone doing some genealogical digging found that he had been shot to death stealing cattle. "No, he died of.....Oh, THAT kind of lead poisoning." Not a joke, it actually happened.

That reminds me of the pastor's wife years ago, who, in the context of the anti-evolutionary song, "I'm No Kin to the Monkey" commented to me on the lyrics, "I don't know much about his ancestors, but mine didn't swing from a tree," that one of hers did, for the same type of crime. :shock:
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temporal1
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Re: Genealogy

Post by temporal1 »

Neto:
I've sorta' got into this again lately, mostly because when we were going through our parents' house last summer (cleaning it out to be sold) my older brother put all of the genealogy stuff on "my pile". :)

So now I'm looking at this stuff, some 'books' put together by somewhat distant relatives of my mom.

Ever notice how, if someone is following their surname, all of the wives, brothers & sisters just get left out? - But boy oh boy would it get complicated to organize that if you attempt to follow them all back.
Yes. Complicated. And, the numbers!
In my informal readings, some describe family “trees” as more like family webs.

(i added some line spacing below, and underline, to help me read:)

2015 / “So you’re related to Charlemagne? - You and every other living European” …
Adam Rutherford

https://www.theguardian.com/science/com ... rutherford
.. But we are all special, which means none of us are.
If you’re vaguely of European extraction, you are also the fruits of Charlemagne’s prodigious loins.
A fecund ruler, he sired at least 18 children by motley wives and concubines, including Charles the Younger, Pippin the Hunchback, Drogo of Metz, Hruodrud, Ruodhaid, and not forgetting Hugh.

This is merely a numbers game.
You have two parents, four grandparents, eight great-grandparents, and so on.
But this ancestral expansion is not borne back ceaselessly into the past.

If it were, your family tree when Charlemagne was Le Grand Fromage would harbour more than a billion ancestors – more people than were alive then.
What this means is that pedigrees begin to fold in on themselves a few generations back, and become less arboreal, and more web-like.

In 2013, geneticists Peter Ralph and Graham Coop showed that all Europeans are descended from exactly the same people. Basically, everyone alive in the ninth century who left descendants is the ancestor of every living European today, including Charlemagne, Drogo, Pippin and Hugh. Quel dommage. ..
Reading this, i began to think, many more of us here on this forum may share ancestry we’d not thought about. This forum is mostly about Anabaptist history, 1500’s-forward.

One of my interests in this forum was due to questions of my ancestors’ roles in Anabaptist history.
Esp, because of such frequent like beliefs sifting down, but, no family stories or references.
What is this silence? In my family, silence does not represent a vacuum. More likely, things forgotten generously mixed with things hidden. :)
Neto:
We used to go to a Plett family reunion - all the descendants of one Michael Plett, who was born in the Mennonite colony in Czarist Russia (in what is now eastern Ukraine) in around 1823.
Already when I was in HS, it was a gathering of up to my 5th cousins.
That sort of organization is probably more manageable to put into a book form, but the "out-laws" still all get left out, at least anything beyond their own name & birthdate.
(The Plett family relation is on my Dad's side, but some of my first cousins on my Mom's side are my Dad's 4th cousins. Well, actually half 4th cousins, because the afore-mentioned Michael Plett had a second family after his first wife died, and my Mom's brother married a descendant of the first wife, and we are from the second wife.)
(i think) throughout history, most records were weighted through males, to me, this is logical, scriptures support this, lots of practical and cultural support for this. My family happened to have quite a lot of family history on my mother’s side, little to nothing on my father’s side. my mother urged me to look for my father’s family history, but, until this last year, nothing. i’m sad, because she is not here to share these unexpected findings. she, my father, and his mother would have been “crazy” to learn these different paternal connections. they would have had lots to add, i’m sure! lol

Early DNA was based on male-to-male DNA markers. Because of science.
Neto:
But really, what's the point of all of this?
Most of these lists are no more than lists of names, birth & death dates.
It’s important to keep things in perspective, certainly, scriptures warn against genealogies.
There are different points, interests, values.

Regarding “lists of names.” Yes. For instance, if i’m counting correctly, Chief Henri Micmac is 13 generations back from me. i’m overwhelmed to read so much history available on him. this was Nova Scotia, 1500-1600’s. there’s a beautiful painting of him. he was a converted, sincere Christian.
To access his history, there are mostly “lists of names+dates” to get there.

So, even tho list info seems sparse+disappointing, those lists can be imperative to connecting dots.
Neto:
There were, however, some of my relatives on my Mom's side who did not come to the States.
Some escaped into China during the last months of WWII, others were exiled to Siberia in Stalin's 'cleansing', others fled with the Nazi army & went to Brazil & other countries in South America.
Others stayed in Russia, then the USSR, and some are probably still there.

Those are the stories I would like to hear - how it went for them. (Mostly not very well, unfortunately.

(These were all Mennonites.
We have never gotten far enough back to find anyone who wasn't, except perhaps the child found under a tree in the Mennonite colony in what was then known as The Ukraine.
Neto:
Spiritual conditions during that period were very poor, and some young men fathered children with their parents' Ukrainian servant girls.)
i have a family heartbreak account of a teen girl who worked for a wealthy family in late 1800’s Indiana. she became pregnant by her employers’ son, they wanted to marry, his mother would not stand for it.
the story was, his family sent him to Europe. we have never located any of them.

the pregnancy was complete taboo, the mother+child returned to her family’s farm, they lived a tough, isolated life. the child was loved and raised by family, grew up, married, had a large family. she so wanted to meet her father, to show him what a wonderful family he had. it did not happen in her lifetime.

maybe one day a connection will be made. so far, nothing.
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Neto
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Re: Genealogy

Post by Neto »

Another question about writing up genealogy records:
First, there are of course several types of records, a list of all of the (known) descendants of one person in the past, a lineage up a certain family name, or tracing one person's lineage back to a certain ancestor, regardless of whether it is through male or female ancestors during the intermediate generations, or an effort to show all ancestors of a given person, or, as it is used in anthropology, '/ego'.
My question is in regards to the latter approach. How would you organize such a record, without loosing the reader, or, worse yet, getting lost yourself, as the compiler/organizer? Has anyone here tackled such a project for their own family? It would basically be a reverse family tree, but if you are able to go back 7 or so generations, then it would get quite "busy" to draw it out, and how would you handle the same persons appearing on different parts of the same "tree"? (As I always say, I don't have as many ancestors as some folks....)
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temporal1
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Re: Genealogy

Post by temporal1 »

Neto wrote:Another question about writing up genealogy records:
First, there are of course several types of records, a list of all of the (known) descendants of one person in the past, a lineage up a certain family name,
or tracing one person's lineage back to a certain ancestor, regardless of whether it is through male or female ancestors during the intermediate generations,
or an effort to show all ancestors of a given person,
or, as it is used in anthropology, '/ego'.

My question is in regards to the latter approach.
How would you organize such a record, without loosing the reader, or, worse yet, getting lost yourself, as the compiler/organizer?
Has anyone here tackled such a project for their own family?

It would basically be a reverse family tree, but if you are able to go back 7 or so generations, then it would get quite "busy" to draw it out,
and how would you handle the same persons appearing on different parts of the same "tree"?

(As I always say, I don't have as many ancestors as some folks....) :P
i can only respond for myself, from what i’ve learned on this forum, many Mennonites have family records, esp going back to the 1500’s, their Anabaptist history. i have been wondering about their history prior, because, as has puzzled+interested me, their ancestry did not begin in the 1500’s.
some seem to have more family history that includes non-Anabaptist history, but, naturally, on this forum, the central interest is 1500’s Anabaptists to present. :D

i’m not sure i’m accurately understanding all the “or”s in your first paragraph. :)

in general, i think what you’re describing resonates with the family “spider web” pattern versus the familiar family “tree” pattern.

not all, but, much of history was more dominately recorded through the male lines.
even the early DNA results were determined by male DNA markers.

science reflects new information, now it’s known males+females equally contribute to DNA.
this DNA equality helps with understanding family tree charts, the grandmothers’ lines are now known to be as genetically important as the grandfathers’, and the line of male surnames.

males contribute the chromosones that determine gender. (a relief from science to females, many in history having paid high prices for not producing male offspring.) :)

i am just beginning a search of my maiden name, specially for my brother. the trail seems to end with our father’s grandfather. i’m hoping, if i can just “get over the hump” of this mystery, maybe more records will show up.

i have been dumbfounded by what i’ve found recorded on my father’s mother’s side, just in this last year. i use other sources, but, most of this has been through free accounts at:

FAMILY SEARCH
https://www.familysearch.org/en/

and, FIND A GRAVE
https://www.findagrave.com/
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appleman2006
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Re: Genealogy

Post by appleman2006 »

The half wagon wheel works great for starting with yourself and working back. You are the hub. The next layer has your Mom and Dad. And so on. Some great great great grandparents may very well show up more than once and in different generations. Important to have birth and death dates along as many names were used repeatedly.
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