Bunny Trails

[Thomas_muntzer]

Oh, and by the way, the highest tax bracket is 37% not 40%. But can you tell us what the income threshold is to move into the 37% tax bracket? And the median household income in the US is $74,580. Can you tell us what the effective income tax rate would be on the average family earning $74,580?

You must add all the other taxes not only income tax.

And it's different inmigrate to the united states in 1800 where you had to built your house from scratch and half of your childs died before 15 than arrive today sign by welfare in a post industrial society

[RZehr]

It was one thing to welcome everyone to America back when it was the land of personal responsibility, with the understanding that it was up to each person to provide for themselves. Back then, immigrants cost society no money at all.
Now, America, Canada, Europe are all welfare states. Which really massively changes the calculation for the citizens. And the existence of this welfare also strengthens the drawing power of immigrants to come.

[Ken]

California’s top marginal rate plus federal tax and Medicare surtax is 53.1%.

The argument was that it was all going to illegal aliens.

Tell us how much social security and Medicare taxes are going to illegal aliens. In fact, tell us if illegal aliens are eligible to receive even a penny of social security or medicare. In fact I suspect you already know the answer to that question.

[Ken]

It was one thing to welcome everyone to America back when it was the land of personal responsibility, with the understanding that it was up to each person to provide for themselves. Back then, immigrants cost society no money at all.
Now, America, Canada, Europe are all welfare states. Which really massively changes the calculation for the citizens. And the existence of this welfare also strengthens the drawing power of immigrants to come.

Which forms of welfare are undocumented immigrants entitled to in this country?

Can they receive social security?
Can they receive medicare?
Can they receive medicaid?
Can they receive Food Stamps?
Can they receive the earned income tax credit?
Were they eligible for pandemic relief payments?
Can they receive SSI?
Can they receive TANF?

Am I missing any major forms of welfare?

[RZehr]

It was one thing to welcome everyone to America back when it was the land of personal responsibility, with the understanding that it was up to each person to provide for themselves. Back then, immigrants cost society no money at all.
Now, America, Canada, Europe are all welfare states. Which really massively changes the calculation for the citizens. And the existence of this welfare also strengthens the drawing power of immigrants to come.

Which forms of welfare are undocumented immigrants entitled to in this country?

Can they receive social security?
Can they receive medicare?
Can they receive medicaid?
Can they receive Food Stamps?
Can they receive the earned income tax credit?
Were they eligible for pandemic relief payments?
Can they receive SSI?
Can they receive TANF?

I don’t care enough to check, but they do get “welfare”, i.e. some benefits from the government, benefits that are not available to the general public such as free roads.
How many welfare agencies check legal status, hmm? How many don’t?

Oh, I just thought of a good one. Free bus rides from Texas to New York! Private charter flights to Martha’s Vineyard!

[Ken]

It was one thing to welcome everyone to America back when it was the land of personal responsibility, with the understanding that it was up to each person to provide for themselves. Back then, immigrants cost society no money at all.
Now, America, Canada, Europe are all welfare states. Which really massively changes the calculation for the citizens. And the existence of this welfare also strengthens the drawing power of immigrants to come.

Which forms of welfare are undocumented immigrants entitled to in this country?

Can they receive social security?
Can they receive medicare?
Can they receive medicaid?
Can they receive Food Stamps?
Can they receive the earned income tax credit?
Were they eligible for pandemic relief payments?
Can they receive SSI?
Can they receive TANF?

I don’t care enough to check, but they do get “welfare”, i.e. some benefits from the government, benefits that are available to the general public. How many welfare agencies check legal status, hmm? How many don’t?

Oh, I just thought of a good one. Free bus rides from Texas to New York! Private charter flights to Martha’s Vineyard!

They don't actually get ANY of those things that I listed which are all the major Federal welfare programs. Plus they don't get state aid like unemployment. Some cities do provide temporary housing assistance, and some volunteer organizations provide food aid. They probably don't check immigration status at most food banks. But that is about it.

[RZehr]

Which forms of welfare are undocumented immigrants entitled to in this country?

Can they receive social security?
Can they receive medicare?
Can they receive medicaid?
Can they receive Food Stamps?
Can they receive the earned income tax credit?
Were they eligible for pandemic relief payments?
Can they receive SSI?
Can they receive TANF?

I don’t care enough to check, but they do get “welfare”, i.e. some benefits from the government, benefits that are available to the general public. How many welfare agencies check legal status, hmm? How many don’t?

Oh, I just thought of a good one. Free bus rides from Texas to New York! Private charter flights to Martha’s Vineyard!

They don't actually get ANY of those things that I listed which are all the major Federal welfare programs. Plus they don't get state aid like unemployment. Some cities do provide temporary housing assistance, and some volunteer organizations provide food aid. They probably don't check immigration status at most food banks. But that is about it.

You sure they cant get anything like food stamps from some liberal cities or states? Specifically Oregon?

Another area they get assistance is healthcare. Oregon state healthcare is free to people who qualify, regardless of their legal status.

In Oregon they also are allowed to receive access to instate-tuition and financial aid for college.

[temporal1]

I don’t care enough to check, but they do get “welfare”, i.e. some benefits from the government, benefits that are not available to the general public such as free roads.
How many welfare agencies check legal status, hmm? How many don’t?

Oh, I just thought of a good one. Free bus rides from Texas to New York! Private charter flights to Martha’s Vineyard!

legal counsel/“passwords,” starting before crossing the border. lest they just happen to speak truthfully which might impede the journey.

[Ken]

I don’t care enough to check, but they do get “welfare”, i.e. some benefits from the government, benefits that are available to the general public. How many welfare agencies check legal status, hmm? How many don’t?

Oh, I just thought of a good one. Free bus rides from Texas to New York! Private charter flights to Martha’s Vineyard!

They don't actually get ANY of those things that I listed which are all the major Federal welfare programs. Plus they don't get state aid like unemployment. Some cities do provide temporary housing assistance, and some volunteer organizations provide food aid. They probably don't check immigration status at most food banks. But that is about it.

You sure they cant get anything like food stamps from some liberal cities or states? Specifically Oregon?

Another area they get assistance is healthcare. Oregon state healthcare is free to people who qualify, regardless of their legal status.

In Oregon they also are allowed to receive access to instate-tuition and financial aid for college.

Nope. Undocumented immigrants aren't entitled to any Federal aid including food stamps. They might get private food handouts and likely won't be turned away from food banks. But they can't get food stamps which are Federal and involve an application, review of the persons finances, earnings record, social security number, etc. When states administer food stamps they are actually giving out Federal benefits.

At least that is how it is here in Washington which is a pretty liberal state. https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/program-sum ... grants-fap

The decision to include them in the Oregon Health program was actually to save the state money and help rural clinics and hospitals.

Undocumented immigrants are still going to show up in emergency rooms and run up bills. This way the bills get paid. Medicaid dollars don't actually go to the person. They go to the hospital or clinic. No medicaid recipient ever sees a dime. So in your community, if an undocumented person goes to the hospital, being on the Oregon Health plan just means the hospital is going to get paid for the care they are already required by law to provide.

[RZehr]

They don't actually get ANY of those things that I listed which are all the major Federal welfare programs. Plus they don't get state aid like unemployment. Some cities do provide temporary housing assistance, and some volunteer organizations provide food aid. They probably don't check immigration status at most food banks. But that is about it.

You sure they cant get anything like food stamps from some liberal cities or states? Specifically Oregon?

Another area they get assistance is healthcare. Oregon state healthcare is free to people who qualify, regardless of their legal status.

In Oregon they also are allowed to receive access to instate-tuition and financial aid for college.

Nope. Undocumented immigrants aren't entitled to any Federal aid including food stamps. They might get private food handouts and likely won't be turned away from food banks. But they can't get food stamps which are Federal and involve an application, review of the persons finances, earnings record, social security number, etc. When states administer food stamps they are actually giving out Federal benefits.

At least that is how it is here in Washington which is a pretty liberal state. https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/program-sum ... grants-fap

Check this out:

The general SNAP eligibility rule for non-U.S. citizens requires legal residents to have lived in the U.S. for at least five years. However, there are many exceptions for certain populations such as refugees, victims of trafficking, and asylum recipients.

Here is a table that helps breakdown SNAP eligibility for non-U.S. citizens.
Immigration Status

SNAP

1. LPR* (18 and over) - Eligible (after 5-year bar or qualifying work history)

2. LPR (under 18) - Eligible

3. LPR (Pregnant Women) - Eligible (after 5-year bar or qualifying work history)

4. Refugees, asylees, victims of trafficking, certain others - Eligible

5. Those without documentation and DACA recipients (including children and pregnant women) - Not Eligible


* LPR stands for “Legal Permanent Resident,” colloquially referred to as a green card. This table is an edited and simplified version of one published by the National Immigration Law Center, which can be found here.

https://oregonhunger.org/snap-immigration/

What does number 4 mean?

Regardless, you are parsing illegal/legal migrants. Fact is, in the past there was no welfare to attract migrants, legal or not.
Today, fact remains, that there are welfare benefits for legal migrants (and even some for illegal migrants) that are quite attractive, and are a powerful draw to the US.

Here is my original post. Do you see anything in here about illegal immigrants? Or do you see me writing about the welfare state and migrants?

It was one thing to welcome everyone to America back when it was the land of personal responsibility, with the understanding that it was up to each person to provide for themselves. Back then, immigrants cost society no money at all.
Now, America, Canada, Europe are all welfare states. Which really massively changes the calculation for the citizens. And the existence of this welfare also strengthens the drawing power of immigrants to come.

Welfare states are extremely attractive to people from destitute socialist societies for some reason. Whereas if there was no welfare, I imagine the citizen taxpayers would be more inclined to welcome immigrants, which in turn would work to ease the political logjam, and immigrating here legally may not be so impossible.

I think there is a direct correlation between welfare, and migration, and then illegal immigration. Same thing is happening in Europe.