Bunny Trails

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
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Robert
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Re: Bunny Trails

Post by Robert »

Bootstrap wrote: For perspective, Josh, Max, Temp, and I are among the top 5 posters, assuming Robert's post count is accurate.
I would not assume that. :lol:

I hacked the database. I plan to change it next time I hack it, but have found no reason to do so yet. :twisted:
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temporal1
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Re: Bunny Trails

Post by temporal1 »

Robert wrote:
Bootstrap wrote: For perspective, Josh, Max, Temp, and I are among the top 5 posters, assuming Robert's post count is accurate.
I would not assume that. :lol:

I hacked the database. I plan to change it next time I hack it, but have found no reason to do so yet. :twisted:
everyone seems to enjoy it.
it well represents your male dominance thing. :P

meanwhile, my daily post count is now down to a healthier -5/daily. :blah:
that is, under 5 daily! not negative 5. :?
over months, possibly this year, my actual daily post count is probably more like 0-3?
it's been intentional, and not always easy.
but, it's for the best.
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MaxPC
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Re: Bunny Trails

Post by MaxPC »

Robert, disagreements are one thing. Ad hominem attacks are another altogether. It's not passive aggressive to refuse to engage such attacks and vitriol. Christ did not answer on many an occasion in the face of false accusations and attacks. It is a choice. The choice to refuse to engage in hostilities is a boundary. There is no aggression on my part. I'm simply focusing on those conversations that give me the most encouragement and insight into Anabaptist thinking vis a vis the discipleship walk. Boundaries should be respected.

To all: check the archives. Click on the names and read the posts. My posts are not aggressive. There are posts by two who are deliberately disruptive and aggressive. The archives do not lie. I've stated my case. That's the sum of it.
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Josh
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Re: Bunny Trails

Post by Josh »

And telling someone they've lost their salvation, because they argue / disagree with you on an Internet forum, is an entirely different thing, and that's exactly what MaxPC did to me, and without any consequences. I'm not sure what "boundaries need to be respected" quite means, but I think that's crossing a very big boundary.

It's pretty clear MaxPC thinks MennoNet would be a better place with Bootstrap and me not in it. I'm not really sure how to deal with that.

Perhaps the two of us could leave and go start a new forum, and then whoever on this forum does want to talk to us could join us over there too.
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temporal1
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Re: Bunny Trails

Post by temporal1 »

buckeyematt2 wrote:Bahaha :lol:
happy birthday :D
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Robert
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Re: Bunny Trails

Post by Robert »

MaxPC wrote:Robert, disagreements are one thing. Ad hominem attacks are another altogether. It's not passive aggressive to refuse to engage such attacks and vitriol. Christ did not answer on many an occasion in the face of false accusations and attacks. It is a choice. The choice to refuse to engage in hostilities is a boundary. There is no aggression on my part. I'm simply focusing on those conversations that give me the most encouragement and insight into Anabaptist thinking vis a vis the discipleship walk. Boundaries should be respected.

To all: check the archives. Click on the names and read the posts. My posts are not aggressive. There are posts by two who are deliberately disruptive and aggressive. The archives do not lie. I've stated my case. That's the sum of it.
One thing, I did not say you were being aggressive, but passive aggressive. A passive aggressive move is to ignore (shun) someone. It is not the only way to be passive aggressive, but it is a way. A passive aggressive act is one that uses a passive action in a way that it targets or tries to point blame at someone else.

Another, if someone asks a challenging question, that is not an attack. Confronting someone is a very Christ like thing to do. Judging them is not. Asking a question that challenges the other is. Making belittling statements about another is not.

The only time Jesus did not answer was on the night of his arrest. Even some of the Gospels show him answering then, just in a challenging way, as he always did. All other times in scripture, we see Jesus responding some way to his accusers or those that questioned him. Even when he said he was not going to give them a response, he actually did in the way he responded.

Engaging one another is hard. One of the reasons why I have grown so quiet over the past 2 years is because it has been very hard. Yet, one thing I have tried to always do is respond to whomever engaged me. I do this for one reason. I am trying to value the other more than myself. There are many times I just choose not to respond to an open post or topic. I have tried really hard to always respond to any question or comment to or about me. Not to defend myself, but to simply engage out of nothing other than respect for another human being. I can not say my responses are always kind or honorable, but I do try. When I miss the mark, I try to own it.

It has not been easy. I have basically been rejected by my denomination as a outspoken troublemaking conservative, and I am often branded a evil liberal with many cM(most here) because I accept woman in leadership, remarriage, and no head coverings. So you have two people asking questions? I have many more assailing me. I may not be able to do anything else, but I will always stand and answer. I do this for two simple reasons. One, I feel it shows value and respect to another. Two, it keeps the door open for any possible hopes for a relationship. Anyone married over a long time knows that communication is key to keeping a healthy relationship that has balance on both sides.

So please hear what I am saying.

One, I do value you.

Two, I am trying to engage in chance that there can be some kind of relationship between us.

You will never be who I want you to be. I will never be who you want me to be. Yet, can we still find ways of respecting one another, and in doing so, build some kind of connection and bond?

Can I ask you a question without you getting defensive and reacting out of that fear?

Will you ask for boundaries that shut me out and make me feel rejected and then I react out of that?

Or, will you become transparent so I can see Christ through you?

And will I not see your acts of separation as rejection so that I do not react in ways that create more separation?

Maybe a little of both from each of us? I honestly wonder if it will be as hard for you to open up as it is for me to not feel rejected and judged? I know the hill I have to climb. I have no idea if you have a big hill, or are just unwilling to take an easy step.
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lesterb
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Re: Bunny Trails

Post by lesterb »

Robert: I am often branded a evil liberal with many cM(most here) because I accept woman in leadership...
I don't remember ever calling you an evil liberal. I may not agree with all your positions but I still respect you.
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temporal1
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Re: Bunny Trails

Post by temporal1 »

lesterb wrote:
Robert: I am often branded a evil liberal with many cM(most here) because I accept woman in leadership...
I don't remember ever calling you an evil liberal. I may not agree with all your positions but I still respect you.
Robert, when you write about this kind of thing, i presume you are describing private communication .. i do not see this on forum, or, very little, i have no idea what goes on privately.

however, when perceived attacks are felt, they hurt, whether intended or not, whether factual or not. some have thicker skins than others .. and, thick skins can vary according to circumstances; true for me.

generally speaking, it appears to me (fwiw) :roll:
you are well respected and accepted, encouraged, etc., on this forum - by CM's!
you were enthusiastically invited/requested to be admin! - you have had warm invitations to join different CM fellowships .. but, "we" often tend to respond to perceived negatives, while dismissing positives.

as you often champion, just because folks don't agree on all points does not equate to disrespect or rejection. this is more a matter of being (overly sensitive?) .. i think. :-|

it's also a temptation to expect others to be "mind-readers," when precious few of us are. :)
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
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Robert
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Re: Bunny Trails

Post by Robert »

lesterb wrote:
Robert: I am often branded a evil liberal with many cM(most here) because I accept woman in leadership...
I don't remember ever calling you an evil liberal. I may not agree with all your positions but I still respect you.
I have always known that with you Lester. There are others who can disagree with other's views without condemning the person. I have always felt that way with you and a few others here.

I personally would rather have people who disagree with me. it helps me think things through and consider other possibilities. I have no problem with someone I care about disagreeing with me on some issues. I enjoy being challenged, especially by people I trust. I know that they are asking honest questions and actually care about my responses, instead of someone just wanting me to spout their opinions on a subject.

The past two months, more of my quietness has been from me working on a new massive project. I plan to release it in a month or two. Until then, busy will be my mind. Once I announce it, there are some here who will struggle or disagree with some of it. I can take that. Some will think I am too worldly and falling into the evil side of things. My answer is "What else is new?"
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Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Bunny Trails

Post by Bootstrap »

MaxPC wrote:To all: check the archives. Click on the names and read the posts. My posts are not aggressive. There are posts by two who are deliberately disruptive and aggressive. The archives do not lie.
I agree that the archives do not lie. And checking them carefully can really be very helpful.

Here's how I read this thread. Max heard something on the news that was shocking and reported it as he remembered it, assuming it was true as first reported. To me, his post had the tone that Peter identified:
PeterG wrote:I'm afraid that (a) the professor's statements, (b) the news report, (c) this thread, and (d) this post are not as different from each other as we might wish.

"Just look as those bad people! Please join me in my disapproval of them."
Max responded by branding Peter hostile. When I echoed his concerns, the same thing happened to me, of course. And to Josh. In the OP he uses the opportunity to tell us that he was a professor, and that professors like him were better than this, and it is his sense of professional pride ... so it struck me a little more like:
Just look at those bad people, who are not good professors like me! Please join me in my disapproval of them!
Max has something he wants to say, and anyone who questions it or disagrees gets added to the list of people to be disapproved. His response to any of this is to say he is staying focused and ignoring those [fill in the ugly adjective] people who are only trying to [fill in some awful motive]. Each time, he tells you about his own very pure motives. He, of course, is only trying to reduce vitriol. Please join him in his disapproval of those awful people who would distract him from his focus by asking questions or disagreeing.

Let's just not do that. If discussing is considered hostile, an open discussion forum is going to feel like a very hostile place. I'm not going to stop asking questions or discussing things because he plays this game. Please don't assume that I am evil or hostile because I am asking questions and offering opinions. This is an open discussion forum, that's what it's for. I don't want a forum where the only way to have peace is to declare that nothing Max says can be questioned. Nobody else is given that privelege. I expect people to question what I say, that's what happens to most of us when we post.
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