Bunny Trails

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Sudsy
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Re: Bunny Trails

Post by Sudsy »

Robert wrote:
Sudsy wrote:So, if I believe I am showing respect to someone by answering their questions but they, in return, do not act accordingly and may go further in ways of showing disrespect for me, how am I as a Christian to react ?

Here is where, imo, turning the other cheek, comes into play. And if the other person is treating me as an enemy or if I perceive they are treating me as an enemy by their action or lack of action, then according to Jesus I must not only bear that response but try to make loving moves toward them which may include accepting them as they are.

What am I missing with this approach ? (which I believe I'm still learning to do).
Narrow is the road ...

There does come a time when we do have to pull away and not be a doormat. Matthew 18 should be a good guide. I would not say it should be the law, but a guide.
Good reference and I won't bug you too much more on this but you already committed to respecting me with answers. :) Love you brother and all you have done and continue to do to make this forum possible. What family doesn't have their spats. Even through these we can learn more and consider WWJD.

I do agree there is a time to stop turning the other cheek or going down the same destructive path.

So, would you say that Mathew 18:15-17 indicates that when a group agrees that a person is sinning against another Christian in the group and refuses to repent (change their ways) after all in the group know about their sinning, that the group should quit attempting fellowship with that person and yet still treat them as brothers or sisters in the Lord and do good to them outside of spiritual conversation (in the environment of a forum) ?

And if some in the group do not take this route, those who view this as unrepentant sinning, should themselves drop further spiritual conversations and not seek further reconciliation until repentance is made. If and when repentance is made then we are to forgive each and every time it occurs (70 X 7) ?

Seeking to apply the practical application of what Jesus is saying in Mathew 18:15-17 if we can regard this as applicable to a forum as it is a local church -
Now if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, then take with you one or two others, that by the testimony of two or three witnesses every word may be established. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
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Robert
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Re: Bunny Trails

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Sudsy wrote:So, would you say that Mathew 18:15-17 indicates that when a group agrees that a person is sinning against another Christian in the group and refuses to repent (change their ways) after all in the group know about their sinning, that the group should quit attempting fellowship with that person and yet still treat them as brothers or sisters in the Lord and do good to them outside of spiritual conversation (in the environment of a forum) ?
Again, I see Matthew 18 as a guide. There are a lot of variables when dealing with relationships. It could be just the two should respect each other with distance. It could be that the two personalities just do not blend well.

It could also be that one is doing things that is very detrimental to others and the group should distance themselves for the benefit of the group and/or a way to really speak loudly to the one who is being harmful.

It could be the group would select one who could have a relationship without great harm. Use that person as the contact or tool to relate and work with the other.

Each person has a unique personality and needs. Personal history really shapes our perception of the present.

So, overall, I see no need to be legalistic with the Matthew 18 guide as I see no reason to keep track of offenses until we reach 70 x 7. Jesus was making a point, not quoting a number.

The concept is that there are two sides to all conflicts. It often takes a group to sort things out, give different perspectives, and help with finding how we all interact. This is the message I get from Matthew 18. If you can't work it out, take someone who can help. If the two of you can't work it out, take a group. Keep working. Don't walk away because you have an issue with another. You may need to find space until you are ready to approach the person, but the goal should be to rebuild the relationship, not prove how they are wrong.
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Sudsy
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Re: Bunny Trails

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Robert wrote:
Sudsy wrote:So, would you say that Mathew 18:15-17 indicates that when a group agrees that a person is sinning against another Christian in the group and refuses to repent (change their ways) after all in the group know about their sinning, that the group should quit attempting fellowship with that person and yet still treat them as brothers or sisters in the Lord and do good to them outside of spiritual conversation (in the environment of a forum) ?
Again, I see Matthew 18 as a guide. There are a lot of variables when dealing with relationships. It could be just the two should respect each other with distance. It could be that the two personalities just do not blend well.

It could also be that one is doing things that is very detrimental to others and the group should distance themselves for the benefit of the group and/or a way to really speak loudly to the one who is being harmful.

It could be the group would select one who could have a relationship without great harm. Use that person as the contact or tool to relate and work with the other.

Each person has a unique personality and needs. Personal history really shapes our perception of the present.

So, overall, I see no need to be legalistic with the Matthew 18 guide as I see no reason to keep track of offenses until we reach 70 x 7. Jesus was making a point, not quoting a number.

The concept is that there are two sides to all conflicts. It often takes a group to sort things out, give different perspectives, and help with finding how we all interact. This is the message I get from Matthew 18. If you can't work it out, take someone who can help. If the two of you can't work it out, take a group. Keep working. Don't walk away because you have an issue with another. You may need to find space until you are ready to approach the person, but the goal should be to rebuild the relationship, not prove how they are wrong.
Thanks Robert, I appreciate your thoughts on this and providing some possible approaches to dealing with areas of offense. In an open forum as this is, it would seem to me the limitations of acting as a church may be such that to get a group to act as a group would be quite difficult if not impossible. I have to go for now but I will think more on what you said and respond later. Thanks again, bro..
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Sudsy
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Re: Bunny Trails

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Perhaps the best approach, imo, is for two that cannot post with each other in an acceptable manner to both of them, should withdraw from forum open discussing a thread with each other until they have reconciled over PMs in a way that respects each other.

Currently there is no one on this forum that I will not share with and answer their questions but perhaps someone does not feel that same way about me. If so, would you please PM me so we can attempt to reconcile. I really don't care to be on anyone's foe list but if I am, I would appreciate knowing why. I think I'm pretty 'thick skinned' so feel free to PM me with your perceptions.
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Re: Bunny Trails

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Sudsy wrote:Perhaps the best approach, imo, is for two that cannot post with each other in an acceptable manner to both of them, should withdraw from forum open discussing a thread with each other until they have reconciled over PMs in a way that respects each other.
That would work but only if both agree to withdraw.
Currently there is no one on this forum that I will not share with and answer their questions but perhaps someone does not feel that same way about me. If so, would you please PM me so we can attempt to reconcile. I really don't care to be on anyone's foe list but if I am, I would appreciate knowing why. I think I'm pretty 'thick skinned' so feel free to PM me with your perceptions.
Sudsy, I am glad to talk / discuss / debate with you in open forum (or PM with you as well) even though we have disagreed sharply before, and there were points in time about 2 -3 years ago when my tone towards you was pretty harsh and uncalled for.
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Re: Bunny Trails

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Josh wrote: Sudsy, I am glad to talk / discuss / debate with you in open forum (or PM with you as well) even though we have disagreed sharply before, and there were points in time about 2 -3 years ago when my tone towards you was pretty harsh and uncalled for.
I'm glad we are at peace with one another and the advantage of getting old, as I am, I can't remember those times you were harsh. Forgiving and forgetting is much easier than it once was. :D

I especially appreciate your concern for what I would call 'wishy washy' Christianity where 'almost anything goes' with some forms of Christ following. As you know, I don't think rules are the solution and agree that a laissez-faire approach is not the answer also. I appreciate also your interest in faith sharing with the unsaved as that is the example I grew up under with my parents. Today I am too much of a coward in this area yet I do have concerns for those who are turned off with what they see as Christianity and therefore are not interested in the subject. I wish more were drawn to Jesus through my life and words and get pretty discouraged at times that this is not happening.

Recently I was at a social for those involved in purple martin conservation and I observed that the hostess had little plaques on the wall of her house with scriptures. I waited to get her alone and asked her outright if she was a born again Christian. Her eyes lit up and I shook her hand as a brother in the Lord. We had a great talk about what she was going through in her faith walk. Sadly another one disillusioned by churches who were not that concerned about the lost but more concerned about their own church and comforts.

Anyway, Josh, I'm glad you have found a good fellowship in the Holdeman church. If we had one close by, I would likely give it some serious consideration even though I doubt I could ever be a formal member.
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Re: Bunny Trails

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Sudsy wrote:Anyway, Josh, I'm glad you have found a good fellowship in the Holdeman church. If we had one close by, I would likely give it some serious consideration even though I doubt I could ever be a formal member.
There's one in Kingsville which is 20 minutes (I'm guessing) away?
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Sudsy
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Re: Bunny Trails

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Josh wrote:
Sudsy wrote:Anyway, Josh, I'm glad you have found a good fellowship in the Holdeman church. If we had one close by, I would likely give it some serious consideration even though I doubt I could ever be a formal member.
There's one in Kingsville which is 20 minutes (I'm guessing) away?
O yes. I recall now I mentioned that. If our MB church does not work for us and my wife is interested, I will check out this church about 10 miles away. I'm curious where the pouring came from for water baptism when the word baptism means immerse. It sounds like a step closer than sprinkling yet I think it still lacks in symbolism of being buried and rising to new life in Christ.

I especially like the quote in GAMEO - "It believes that the letter and the spirit of the Gospel are emphatically against strife, contention, and carnal warfare and that, therefore, no believer should have any part in carnal strife, whether between individuals, in lawsuits, or in conflicts between nations". I take that to include strife and contentions between believers. Sometimes a challenge for some of us especially on a forum.
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Re: Bunny Trails

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Sudsy wrote:I especially like the quote in GAMEO - "It believes that the letter and the spirit of the Gospel are emphatically against strife, contention, and carnal warfare and that, therefore, no believer should have any part in carnal strife, whether between individuals, in lawsuits, or in conflicts between nations". I take that to include strife and contentions between believers. Sometimes a challenge for some of us especially on a forum.
In 1 Corinthians 6, there's a clear context for that: Christians also have a way to settle disputes. That's an advantage of a moderated forum, but that's not what we have. Here's the quote:
1 Corinthians 6 wrote:If any of you has a dispute against another, how dare you take it to court before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Or don’t you know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the trivial cases? 3 Don’t you know that we will judge angels—how much more matters of this life? 4 So if you have such matters, do you appoint as your judges those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame! Can it be that there is not one wise person among you who is able to arbitrate between fellow believers? 6 Instead, brother goes to court against brother, and that before unbelievers!
So how do we choose wise people to arbitrate among us?

Here's a thought: If you find any question I ask hostile or aggressive, could we discuss that particular question here in Bunny Trails? I would like to avoid a situation where anyone can shut someone else up by deciding to take offense. But I do think that examining any question I ask is constructive if people find it offensive. And I think it is better to do that outside of the main thread. After all, in the main threads we should be discussing topics, not what we don't like about each other.

And I would rather discuss specific behavior than generalities.
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Sudsy
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Re: Bunny Trails

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Bootstrap wrote: Here's a thought: If you find any question I ask hostile or aggressive, could we discuss that particular question here in Bunny Trails? I would like to avoid a situation where anyone can shut someone else up by deciding to take offense. But I do think that examining any question I ask is constructive if people find it offensive. And I think it is better to do that outside of the main thread. After all, in the main threads we should be discussing topics, not what we don't like about each other.

And I would rather discuss specific behavior than generalities.
The problem, imo, with 'Bunny Trails' being used to deal with an offense is that it can cause readers to take sides on an offense. I may not have the most logical and acceptable reasonings why I feel offended yet they are the way I feel and if they cannot be dealt with through PMs, I think those feeling must be respected. Bunny Trails, imo, are for things I wander off topic on but immediately they are not enough to create their own thread. However, they may trigger a new thread.

I don't think I need to openly discuss what posting behaviour is acceptable and what is not. We all have issues we are working through and can have our reasons for why we do what we do without others putting us through explaining them to everyone.

So, I guess, we do differ on how we allow everyone to set boundaries and how we respect them. I didn't think this way in the past but am trying to now take a more accepting approach to how others post. I likely will screw this up from time to time and don't mind if this is pointed out to me. If you decide not to take this approach, I will need to accept that as your choice but this is what I have decided I should do.
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