Bunny Trails

[Robert]

And Tucker Carlson and Fox News aren't prime examples of news outlets with intentional misinformation?

Nope. Most of what they report on as hard news is correct. If mistakes are made, they own it and correct it. Well, they did when I watched it. I have not watched it in over a year.

[temporal1]

Moving to Bunny Trails: (you’re welcome.)

Robert,
Can you rename the thread to "A faction of MC USA's call to abolish the police"?

Then let's get back on track on discussing the curriculum itself.
Let's even be open-minded to looking for good ideas, things we agree with, common ground, etc. instead of just levelling criticism. Shouldn't we be here to listen?

Ken,
.. I expect they got out too far over their skis
by publishing this as a "curriculum" which presupposes official concurrence, rather than an opinion piece which does not.

If i understand correctly, which i may not, MILITANT ACTIVISTS in MCUSA were the reason for its big shakeup a few years ago.
MCUSA or other, militant activism is not an invitation on their part for listening. Quite the contrary.

[temporal1]

Can we please stick to talking about the curriculum itself?

If you want to talk about MC USA politics, or factions, or go criticise MC USA, make a different thread for that.

If you want to claim this isn't official MC USA curriculum or doctrine, make another thread for that. This was prominently featured in The Mennonite/Anabaptist World (the official magazine of the MC USA), and also on MC USA's homepage. It is being distributed to churches and has multiple MC USA pastors involved in producing and endorsing it. I feel comfortable sharing it here and discussing it as an official piece of curriculum from MC USA.

I also think we should actually listen to the curriculum, read it, discuss it, before we leap to criticising it or "shooting the messenger".

i admire your goal. you are better prepared to recognize what you’re being told, and defend your position, than most.
militant activists are well educated, well versed in human law, esp when it comes to playing leveraging games in language.
much has been compromised or lost by not understanding the uneven playing field.

when one party is focused on gaining power via human law, “the end justifies the means,”
while the other is motivated by hopes of Christian peace, this is a communication gap that typically ends with creeping incrementalism/the slippery slope.

followed with head-scratching, “how did this happen?” -
well, often, you were convinced to vote for it! by wiley activists with every intent to have their way, sooner or later. there is no accident to it. they formally study strategies, are trained to prevail. no matter what.

it’s well to listen.
be aware of your own limitations, or be prepared to be overwhelmed, then sad. imho.

[PeterG]

This interview of Secretary Blinken by Jake tapper may explain why President Biden is getting the blame for how the withdrawal of troops happened and where things stand today.

FORBIDDEN

[GaryK]

This interview of Secretary Blinken by Jake tapper may explain why President Biden is getting the blame for how the withdrawal of troops happened and where things stand today.

FORBIDDEN

Oops! I forgot.

[Ken]

My wife made an effort when we were first married. But it didn't take. She was not just an immigrant into Anabaptism but an immigrant into this country from a Latin American Catholic country where she spent most of her life in urban Catholic schools and Catholic universities.

She found the overall Menno culture alien. All the Northern European cultural affections and rural cultural tilt. Despite my aunts best efforts she just wasn't particularly interested in baking whole-grain breads, canning pickles, or growing her own cucumbers. And she found the plain austerity off-putting. "Where is the beauty? Why do all your churches look like prison work camps?"

It wasn't much to do about theology or "reading the "Bible" She just wasn't particularly interested in joining that particular cultural club and all its baggage with which she had very little in common. Try to explain the 50+ different flavors of Anabaptism in North America and all the different "important" issues that lead them to all splinter off into different directions with an alphabet soup of different acronyms and shorthand and you will get an incredulous look back.

[Josh]

My wife made an effort when we were first married. But it didn't take. She was not just an immigrant into Anabaptism but an immigrant into this country from a Latin American Catholic country where she spent most of her life in urban Catholic schools and Catholic universities.

She found the overall Menno culture alien. All the Northern European cultural affections and rural cultural tilt. Despite my aunts best efforts she just wasn't particularly interested in baking whole-grain breads, canning pickles, or growing her own cucumbers. And she found the plain austerity off-putting. "Where is the beauty? Why do all your churches look like prison work camps?"

It wasn't much to do about theology or "reading the "Bible" She just wasn't particularly interested in joining that particular cultural club and all its baggage with which she had very little in common. Try to explain the 50+ different flavors of Anabaptism in North America and all the different "important" issues that lead them to all splinter off into different directions with an alphabet soup of different acronyms and shorthand and you will get an incredulous look back.

So, Ken, what culture do your children have?

Exactly how nourishing and enriching is suburbia?

[Ken]

So, Ken, what culture do your children have?

Exactly how nourishing and enriching is suburbia?

They have a rich and nourishing culture of diverse friends, and before the pandemic traded time between the US and Latin America and are learning to navigate both cultures and languages. They are all dual-citizens with dual passports and so can travel to freely work and study anywhere in the Mercosur. My middle daughter was lined up to be a foreign exchange student at a Catholic school in Santiago in 2020 before the pandemic canceled all that. When we went back to Belleville this summer for a family reunion my youngest daughter was puzzled and put-off by all the tattered Trump signs and flags still flying about amidst the Amish buggies 9 months after the election. And it took her a while to connect with her cousins who mostly wanted to play volleyball and cornhole 6 hours/day. "Seriously Dad, don't they ever do anything besides play volleyball?"

Sorry to distract this thread. But my larger point is that Anabaptism isn't just some theoretical ideal that stands out there on its own waiting to be "discovered". Well, maybe it is for some rare philosophical types like PetrChelcicky who spend a lot of time reading arcane theology. But in real life and for most people it comes with a LOT of cultural baggage that may be more or less appealing and welcoming to an outsider depending on where they are coming from. If you want to do it and not be a permanent outsider, you have to buy into a lot of cultural stuff that you may or may not find appealing.

[Josh]

They have a rich and nourishing culture of diverse friends, and before the pandemic traded time between the US and Latin America and are learning to navigate both cultures and languages. They are all dual-citizens with dual passports and so can travel to freely work and study anywhere in the Mercosur. My middle daughter was lined up to be a foreign exchange student at a Catholic school in Santiago in 2020 before the pandemic canceled all that. When we went back to Belleville this summer for a family reunion my youngest daughter was puzzled and put-off by all the tattered Trump signs and flags still flying about amidst the Amish buggies 9 months after the election. And it took her a while to connect with her cousins who mostly wanted to play volleyball and cornhole 6 hours/day. "Seriously Dad, don't they ever do anything besides play volleyball?"

Sorry to distract this thread. But my larger point is that Anabaptism isn't just some theoretical ideal that stands out there on its own waiting to be "discovered". Well, maybe it is for some rare philosophical types like PetrChelcicky who spend a lot of time reading arcane theology. But in real life and for most people it comes with a LOT of cultural baggage that may be more or less appealing and welcoming to an outsider depending on where they are coming from. If you want to do it and not be a permanent outsider, you have to buy into a lot of cultural stuff that you may or may not find appealing.

Interestingly enough, I spent last weekend also in Belleville, also around people who have at least two passports, just like I do. We compared notes a bit on different cities we've lived in, particularly New York City. One thing we were on complete agreement on is that it is no place to try to raise kids or a godly family.

Anabaptist culture is a bit wider than Pennsylvania Dutch background people who live between two ridges; "global" culture, on the other had, is quite suffocating. It's rather revealing that you've raised your children to be puzzled and put-off by Trump signs and flags flying about. After Trump won in 2016, I was not threatened or bothered by seeing Clinton bumper stickers or signs. People have political opinions and want to express them. Why are you raising your family to be threatened by this?

[temporal1]

And Ken wins the award !!!! For self praise.

before Ken, i frequently thought to myself, boot is his own biggest fan club.
who knew it would become a competition?!

but, seriously.
when folks are present to sanctimoniously “correct others’ errors,” always, “for the greater good,” it does get rich.
it can be breathtaking.