Bootstrap, Max, Temp, Groundrules ...

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Bootstrap, Max, Temp, Groundrules ...

Post by Bootstrap »

Starting a new thread for this ... first I'll copy some posts from Max and Temp.
temporal1 wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:Request: I would like Max and Temp to exit this thread and let the rest of us discuss here. I apologize for mentioning you explicitly here, that was a mistake. We can discuss that in another thread if you like.

In particular, I would like to see any other information people have on early Anabaptist writers on Divorce and Remarriage. Pointers to original source material would be particularly helpful - I still haven't found a copy of Sattler's "On Divorce" or "Concerning Divorce" online in either English or German.
i will happily respect your request, IF you will honor others' similar requests?
just say the word. :)

actually, i would respect your request without conditions ..
but, i am making the request for you to respect others' requests.
something you have openly refused to do over+over in the past.
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Re: Bootstrap, Max, Temp, Groundrules ...

Post by Bootstrap »

MaxPC wrote:Yes, I agree T1: that request must go both ways :up:
BS must respect our requests to stay out of our threads when we are interested in learning from CAs and CMs.
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Re: Bootstrap, Max, Temp, Groundrules ...

Post by Bootstrap »

We probably have different feelings about what normal courtesy means on a discussion board.

To me, it means that we focus on discussing the topic of a thread. Normally, I would think that anyone who wants can discuss, as long as they are actually discussing the topic of the thread, and that contributing information is a good thing, precisely what these threads are for.

So in the other thread, I would feel fine about either of you contributing quotes from the early Anabaptists on divorce and marriage issues, links to original references, etc. I expect people like Ernie, Neto, Wayne, Lester, Dan, etc. to have some background on writings like these, and some of this is probably inside baseball.

When I asked you to leave the thread, it was precisely because I felt that as long as you were there, it would only ensure that we could not discuss the topic of the thread. If you want to go there and actually contribute, feel free. But please contribute something substantive on the topic of the thread.

As I said before ...
Bootstrap wrote:You and Max are consistently the loudest in proclaiming who the true Anabaptists and Mennonites are. And I'm not sure that you are the ones with the firmest grasp on this. We can't stop you from doing this, but I often do wonder why you think you are so expert on these questions. And it creates a constant undertone of squabbling that really isn't helpful.

Why not let the other people here speak for themselves? Why not let people who have actually read these writings discuss them, without claiming to know who is right if you haven't read them?

And if either of you really is interested in reading what the early Anabaptists said, in context, let's look at their writings and do that, instead of picking at other people on the forum.
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Re: Bootstrap, Max, Temp, Groundrules ...

Post by Bootstrap »

Bootstrap wrote:
MaxPC wrote:Yes, I agree T1: that request must go both ways :up:
BS must respect our requests to stay out of our threads when we are interested in learning from CAs and CMs.
Max, I invite you especially to join the thread and try to figure out more constructive ways to engage.
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Re: Bootstrap, Max, Temp, Groundrules ...

Post by Soloist »

Maybe a focus on nonresistance would be a good thing to consider.
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Re: Bootstrap, Max, Temp, Groundrules ...

Post by Josh »

Soloist wrote:Maybe a focus on nonresistance would be a good thing to consider.
What does nonresistance have to do with this? I don't see any violence or physical force in play.

I have noticed that a few voices here are the loudest ones, and they aren't Anabaptist nor Mennonite, and never have been. I'm not sure why they keep being so loud if they say they want to hear Anabaptist and Mennonite perspectives.

So far I've just mostly responded with silence, and that's what the rest of the CAs/CMs have done too, whether converts or ethnic.
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Re: Bootstrap, Max, Temp, Groundrules ...

Post by Soloist »

I suppose not everyone views nonresistance the same way and that would bunny trail things. I view it as much more than just physical threat/violence
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Re: Bootstrap, Max, Temp, Groundrules ...

Post by Bootstrap »

Soloist wrote:I suppose not everyone views nonresistance the same way and that would bunny trail things. I view it as much more than just physical threat/violence
I'm not sure it would bunny trail things, it's relevant in this thread. Please feel free to share! What do you think the right approach is, and why?
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Re: Bootstrap, Max, Temp, Groundrules ...

Post by RZehr »

Josh wrote:
Soloist wrote:Maybe a focus on nonresistance would be a good thing to consider.
What does nonresistance have to do with this? I don't see any violence or physical force in play.

I have noticed that a few voices here are the loudest ones, and they aren't Anabaptist nor Mennonite, and never have been. I'm not sure why they keep being so loud if they say they want to hear Anabaptist and Mennonite perspectives.

So far I've just mostly responded with silence, and that's what the rest of the CAs/CMs have done too, whether converts or ethnic.
I think nonresistance is very relevant here. This is what nonresistance looks like in everyday life.
The principle is found not it Matthew 5:39 as much as in verse 40,41,43, 44, 46
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Re: Bootstrap, Max, Temp, Groundrules ...

Post by Soloist »

Since I have been invited to comment further, I would present these as foundational verses.
Matthew 5:5 Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Matthew 5:21-26 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Matthew 5:38-48
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have [thy] cloke also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 18:15-17
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
I seem to recall there have been problems between ya’ll before, and to my knowledge, Max doesn't always respond or view Boot’s messages. I suspect that private messages over conflicts have happened before.
We are called by Christ to respond with love to all, enemy or friend. This thread, in my opinion, comes off as a glove being thrown down. I can’t say I’m in favor of Max’s approach of ignoring the whole thing altogether, although it might better than responding with hostility.
Nonresistance is a life style; it means being meek rather than aggressive in a conversation, giving the other the better pick of things, disagreeing with love and meekness, not compromising belief but rather standing with humbleness and a gentle spirit that would rather bow out of a fight than lower to the same level.
Many examples of this have happened in life and many bad examples as well. My personal practice of these ideas is still somewhat poor. I’m a relatively new believer in the grand scheme of things, and I would suspect that others would be better to defend and explain nonresistant lifestyle better than me.
Maybe in the case of disagreements, consider the other’s request as better than your own and bow out when asked without complaint or grievance. Also, possibly reread your comment or have someone else reread it before posting to ensure that it doesn't come off the wrong way (I sometimes have my wife help me with this). With repeated issues between brothers/sisters on a forum, a private message can be sent to a mature older person for a read and then passed on to the conflict. If resolution continues to be a problem, than either start ignoring/avoiding or take it to the moderator?
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