Global Warning/Climate Change

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
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Robert
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Robert »

Bootstrap wrote: This is your forum, and if you feel like that, it's time for me to go. Blessings to you, and if you want to talk to me at any time, you know where to find me. I will not be posting on MennNet.com unless you and I restore our relationship and you invite me back.
Your choice. I have continually stated that I question things. I question some of the biases and political undertones of the climate change group. I have stated that I do accept that there is some warming, just not sure I fully agree with "some" of the findings. I mostly question those who are politicizing this issue. You continue to take that questioning as denial or total disbelief of things. I have clearly stated my position several times. You continue to take my questioning as total denial of any data taken. You have taken it upon yourself to refute anything I post that questions the established climate theories. You also seemed to take my questioning and posting of articles that point in a different way as established belief as I accept everything they say as absolute. I am not an absolute person, but one who enjoys questioning established belief. I love looking into Bigfoot, but doubt it exists. It is fun to question things like that for me. Climate change is just like Bigfoot to me. There is good reason why nothing has been found, but I love to watch and read about people who are looking.

Climate change is the same. I love to look at the opposing view. I found long ago that this is where you find the real challenges to established scientific principles and where the most growth comes from.

You also have decided that I am uneducated and ignorant of things. You also assume I just read the fringe. You also assume I only watch Fox News. None of these things are true, but I feel no need to prove how smart and knowledgeable I am. I do not float my credentials or knowledge base. I see no benefit in it. It has little bearing on the questions I like to ask. While I do not know everything, I can put 1 + 1 together to make 2, 10, and 11 as needed. Yes, I know the latter two might seem wrong, but they are actually not. 1 + 1 in binary is 10. 1 with another 1 right next to it is 11. One is real, the latter a joke. Both are just as much fun for me, but also proves the point that raw data can be easily manipulated or misunderstood.

You are welcome to post or leave. I never viewed MN as mine. I post very little now a days. It belongs to the people who post. I just take out the trash and sweep up as needed. I have accepted of late that I can not really discuss much with you because our brains work so differently. I have run into others in life like that. I learned I have to just stop talking. I also know half of the issue is me. For whatever reason, my brain does not work like normal humans. I have some great things about it, but also have some issues that get in my way often. I think about my father that just passed away. I find, although more tempered in ways, I have some of his traits. At 80, he almost got into a fight with some man who would not take his hat off during the national anthem at a baseball game. My 13 year old nephew had to pull him back. While that issue is not important to me and I would never start a physical altercation, I find I can be quite stubborn. As I said, half of the issues I have with others is me.

So I will not be carrying on dialogue with you as I do others. It always degrades. I feel you always take things I question marginally and make it an absolute. It takes what I say and think out of context. I also just love to question. I spend hours a day watching documentaries and reading. I do have formal education. but found it teaches me little about the real world. I enjoy learning on my own. Sure, it leaves holes and I may take things wrong or not see the whole picture, but I seldom leave the house. It is not really affecting national policy. So it is of little importance, because what I think is of little importance. It really doesn't matter if I totally disagree with science "fact" or theory. None of my deluded beliefs or acceptance of well established scientific principles fixes supper for the three boys I care for daily. So they are just fun thought experiments for me. I see little harm with questioning. I don't even write elected officials swaying their votes. I do nothing with it other than question. I do not see why that is so wrong or why you have decided it has become your personal mission to prove me wrong.

I have stated all this before. I apologized for the snarky post I started all this with, yet again, I feel that was forgotten and ignored. Then, once again, anything I posted was taken to the extreme and you went back on the attack again. Since this is how we seem to communicate, I decided I should not respond. It takes me towards how my father responds to a dude wearing a cap.

So you post your stuff, I will post mine. I will not talk towards you. I will continue to post here because it is one of the last links I have here to stay active. I do not want to do as Hans and be gone, yet still run things. So I find my little corners and sit only to come out when called. I am angry and bitter, and getting into discussions in areas of Anabaptist theology and life will not come out well. This is why I stay in my little corners.

So get off my back and ignore me. You do not need my friendship. Enjoy your life. Share what you want to share. I will share what I want to share. Either that, or someone else is welcome to take all this and I will drift away to never be heard from again.
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RZehr
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by RZehr »

I am really surprised to read that you two feel this way. I read what you each write, and was not able to discern that disagreeing on the issue has migrated into a disagreement with each other.
I wonder it could be that the posts are being taken in a different way than intended.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Bootstrap »

Robert wrote:You also have decided that I am uneducated and ignorant of things.
No, I really haven't. I'm not going to respond to most of your post, but I want to be clear that this is not how I feel about you.

Maybe I just live in a very different world. I do a lot of research, so when someone says they think something is true, we all say, "oh, is it? how can we tell?", and we go off and look at that question one step at a time, changing our minds as we learn new things. We learn what the facts are as we go and challenge each other's conclusions. When one of us says, "I think it's like this", another one says, "no, I think it's like this", we compare, and we move on. I'm rather used to being proven wrong several times a day, and there are days that it may be much higher.

That just doesn't go well when I try to do that here, at least not in the political threads, and I think climate change is usually treated more as a political controversy than a scientific question here. We actually do that reasonably well when discussing what a Bible passage means or how to apply it, and we've started doing well at that even in the sexual abuse thread. I think we are living in a time that anything that touches politics brings out rancor and high emotions and makes it hard to discuss. That part of our brain isn't very good at science or at analyzing what's going on in politics.

This is your forum. If I am driving you nuts to the extent that you don't want to talk to me, and don't even want to try, then the best thing is for me to not be here. Why should you look at my posts every day and feel the way you seem to about me? I would rather reconcile, but if we can't do that, I don't want to be in your face.
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Robert
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Robert »

Bootstrap wrote:No, I really haven't.
I am sure you have not, but you seem to miss the things I post that state that I am just questioning and want to post things that make me question. I shared clearly twice that I question mostly the political extremists and feel it has slanted the understanding of data out there. The IPCC is who I identify as the core pf this political slant. You feel they are the core of the science being done. Fine. You believe them and I will doubt them.

Again, it is not my forum. I just sweep up. You post what you want. You want threads on Biblical themes and Anabaptist ideology, post there.

If global warming is really going to happen, then what I post here will not slow it or speed it up. No where am I calling anyone to be wasteful or harm the environment. I do all I can to care for creation. I have a smaller footprint than ALL the celebrities that demand we all give up our lifestyles to save the planet.

If you want to analyze and critic the data, feel free. I do that my own way and feel no desire to do that here, so if you do it, I will not join in. I will continue to litter the forum with this junk. I know I am the only one who really cares here. Oh well. Leave me in my corner with my little Legos and I am satisfied.
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silentreader
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by silentreader »

Robert wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:No, I really haven't.
I am sure you have not, but you seem to miss the things I post that state that I am just questioning and want to post things that make me question. I shared clearly twice that I question mostly the political extremists and feel it has slanted the understanding of data out there. The IPCC is who I identify as the core pf this political slant. You feel they are the core of the science being done. Fine. You believe them and I will doubt them.

Again, it is not my forum. I just sweep up. You post what you want. You want threads on Biblical themes and Anabaptist ideology, post there.

If global warming is really going to happen, then what I post here will not slow it or speed it up. No where am I calling anyone to be wasteful or harm the environment. I do all I can to care for creation. I have a smaller footprint than ALL the celebrities that demand we all give up our lifestyles to save the planet.

If you want to analyze and critic the data, feel free. I do that my own way and feel no desire to do that here, so if you do it, I will not join in. I will continue to litter the forum with this junk. I know I am the only one who really cares here. Oh well. Leave me in my corner with my little Legos and I am satisfied.
Maybe not.
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Sudsy
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Sudsy »

Robert wrote:Because it just isn;t fun unless Boot and I go at it a bit. :lol:

http://www.dailywire.com/news/10202/rep ... es-barrett
Perhaps the 'fun' mentioned in this OP of going 'at it a bit' was a challenge that just couldn't turn out to be 'fun' in the end by both of your personalities. I think it is hard to 'go at it' on a subject that we have strong convictions about and whatever the subject it can be hard to not take opposing views personal at times. This happens all the time on these forums.

I think you both are highly intelligent guys and have much to offer a forum like this. Although I chose to try to keep out of the political and climate change threads (and sometimes don't), there is a section here for those who have those interests. Hopefully where we have our disagreements we can reach points just to agree to disagree. When the 'fun' is gone it is probably time to change subjects, imo.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Bootstrap »

Robert wrote:I am sure you have not, but you seem to miss the things I post that state that I am just questioning and want to post things that make me question. I shared clearly twice that I question mostly the political extremists and feel it has slanted the understanding of data out there. The IPCC is who I identify as the core of this political slant. You feel they are the core of the science being done. Fine. You believe them and I will doubt them.
Robert wrote:If you want to analyze and critic the data, feel free. I do that my own way and feel no desire to do that here, so if you do it, I will not join in.
OK, first off, let me apologize. I really have misinterpreted some of what you are doing.

Beyond that, I think one of the issues is that it's hard to play hockey and basketball in the same place at the same time without somebody getting frustrated. I think I should stay out of your global warming thread. I don't think that means I have to stay out of the forum.
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MaxPC
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by MaxPC »

Saw a statement in a paper that sums up the entire conversation.
Science is about studying what is. Politics is about what ought to be or what might be. Science is about objectivity. Politics is about subjectivity.
Climate change has always happened. It's documented, it swings with the earth's rotational wobble and other external factors.
Trying to tell people that we can control climate change is about politics.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Bootstrap »

MaxPC wrote:Saw a statement in a paper that sums up the entire conversation.
Science is about studying what is. Politics is about what ought to be or what might be. Science is about objectivity. Politics is about subjectivity.
Here's the "paper": http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ry-museum/.

I think that's confirmation that I don't belong in this thread. I'll drop out now.
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Wayne in Maine »

I enjoy a good discussion, but clearly this topic is tainted with political philosophy (which I don't care to debate), and I don't have as much time to invest in a defense of a scientific skeptics position as others have to defend the IPCC.

So I too will step out of this, still unconvinced that the popular climate models and measurements support "An Inconvenient Truth(?)" .
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