Global Warning/Climate Change

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Bootstrap »

Robert wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:But if we're going to do that, why not have some real fun and invent some truly wild theories?
Just because you claim that what I post is made up and wild, doesn't make it so.

Much of what I post has data that supports it. You just do not seem to like the data. You like to get in the weeds. I like the overview. Feel free to dig in the weeds, but that does not mean I have to get in the weeds also.
Without getting into the weeds, how can you possibly know if the data supports it? You can't even answer basic questions about the data behind most of what you post in this thread.
Robert wrote:I can post and say what I want. I AM the OP, you are not. Not sure why you feel you should be able to set the perimeters that I use. I do appreciate that you do not ridicule me, only what I post. That is at least a step in the right direction.
Sure, but so much of this is non-scientists crowing about their superior knowledge, how much better they are than the scientists who have to actually do the work to prove the things they say. It's putting other people down (scientists) and exalting your non-scientific claims based on claims to know stuff you just don't know.

I don't see how that's going to lead anywhere productive.
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RZehr
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by RZehr »

Boot, when we have scientist telling us that the world is a production of evolution we tune them out. When "they" say that we are the same as monkeys, that homosexuality is okay, a fetus is fine to kill etc., we no longer assume their science is good and credibility once shot is awfully difficult to resuscitate.
Couple this with our belief in Genesis 8:22, Matthew 6:25-34, 1 Peter 5:7, Philippians 4:19 4:6-7, 1 John 5:14-15, Psalms 23, Psalms 62:6, Psalms 24:1 we simply aren't going to be motivated by fear of global climate change. It'll never work.

Their best bet to get the conservative Christians to care about pollutants in the air is from the steward ship angle maybe using Genesis chapters 1 & 2. Simply put at minimum, Christians shouldn't pollute and defile what God has created for us and destroy what God called good.
Show us where our pollution directly is ruining the earth and harming peoples health and we will be willing to do our part. But that is the rub. What they mostly talk about isn't actual harm, but rather the fear of harm. Which is understandable for the unsaved. What actually is there that we can even do? We don't run coal plants, we don't manufacture cars. Is the goal to simply for us to get on some political bandwagon or what?
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Robert
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Robert »

Bootstrap wrote:I don't see how that's going to lead anywhere productive.
Then just ...

[video][/video]
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ohio jones
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by ohio jones »

Hats Off wrote:my apologies - I don't know anything about global warming and don't know why I bother reading this thread. I am confused as to what is serious and what is not.
This thread is not about global warming. Read the title again.... :geek:
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Bootstrap
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Bootstrap »

RZehr wrote:What actually is there that we can even do? We don't run coal plants, we don't manufacture cars. Is the goal to simply for us to get on some political bandwagon or what?
I have no idea what the goal of this thread is. It seems to be a campaign against what scientists are telling us. I didn't start it, I respond to some of the posts. As far as I can tell, the purpose of this thread is to promote a particular bandwagon. I get frustrated with the level of misinformation in this thread. If you look at scientific journals or statements from scientific associations, you would get a very different picture of what mainstream science is than what you see presented here.
RZehr wrote:Boot, when we have scientist telling us that the world is a production of evolution we tune them out. When "they" say that we are the same as monkeys, that homosexuality is okay, a fetus is fine to kill etc., we no longer assume their science is good and credibility once shot is awfully difficult to resuscitate.
Tuning out science entirely is a good honest approach. You aren't claiming to know more about science than the scientists, you aren't pretending to know things you don't know or presenting graphs that you don't understand.

I have no idea whether the theory of evolution is true or not, I don't think science is particularly good at understanding things before known time. The whole "homosexuality is ok" and "a fetus is fine to kill" has little to do with science, which hasn't really changed on either topic. But people use the word "science" when they want to sound authoritative even when what they are saying is not based in science.
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Robert
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Robert »

Bootstrap wrote: But people use the word "science" when they want to sound authoritative even when what they are saying is not based in science.
Exactly! We agree!! :dance:

Lets take this:

Image

You doubted this. You then found the research that showed what it was based on, and then stopped fighting it. No, you never accepted it, but you did not resist it for a very short time. Now, you seem to have forgotten and resist it again, claiming science.

I have posted videos of several scientists that would fall into the denier category simply because they doubt 100% man made cause of climate change. You claim to know better.

I have shown things that bring current scientific theory about climate change into doubt. Not that it is not happening, but that humans have a major affect on it. You claim to know more than my scientists, and say I am not using "research" because I did not go and read their 50 years of research.

I really do not understand why it bothers you so bad that I question established theory on climate change. I just do not trust what the IPCC does and how things are being done in the society to anyone who questions it. Bill Nye and others suggesting people should be jailed for doubting? Real scientists hiding and manipulating data so their theory is perpetuated. These are fascist in practice and you seem to support many of their actions.

I do not deny that humans have some affect on climate. I do deny that humans have 100% effect on climate. So I post things that support that humans are not so powerful and do not have so much affect on climate. I have stated I really like Bjorn Lomberg's approach. He IS a researcher. He basically states what I just said. Why is that such a problem? Why does this get under your skin? What is wrong with me doubting and questioning? Sound science can stand up against questioning. Maybe some of the "experts" I have posted are shills for big oil. Not all are. If they become discredited, then I am happy to admit they are not real scientists. Can you do the same with those behind Climategate? Can you reject those calling for deniers to be jailed? Can you reject those who want to tax carbon, thus make energy too expensive for developing countries? It is the poor who are hurt by taxation. Will you reject those Hollywood people who fly everywhere in their private jets, yet demand everyone else cut back on their carbon footprint?

You do not understand what this thread is about because you do not think like I do. That might be a good thing. I always learn more from those who think different. I like to see things that challenge my thought processes, most the time. When I do not, I ignore it and move on. if it bothers you, smile and wave. 8-)

Lastly, it is fun to poke the bear at times. You make a really good bear. :wave:
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Bootstrap
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Bootstrap »

Robert wrote:Lets take this:

Image

You doubted this. You then found the research that showed what it was based on, and then stopped fighting it. No, you never accepted it, but you did not resist it for a very short time. Now, you seem to have forgotten and resist it again, claiming science.
Seriously, I have no idea what that graph shows, and you don't either. Neither of us can anchor it to scientific papers or data.

Who measured what, how, and how was it graphed? Do other scientists agree with what is depicted there?
Robert wrote:I have posted videos of several scientists that would fall into the denier category simply because they doubt 100% man made cause of climate change. You claim to know better.
And you have no idea whether these people are scientists or not, which of them work for lobbying firms, etc.

I assume that you know that no scientist believes that climate change is 100% caused by humans.

So we basically wind up having silly discussions of whatever you notice on the Internet that matches your opinion. You cannot and will not answer basic questions about it, you insist you have proven something, you insist that all of these guys are scientists.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Bootstrap »

Robert wrote:I really do not understand why it bothers you so bad that I question established theory on climate change.
It's quite simple. And the issue is not that you question established theory.

I think that scientists know a lot about science. That includes those who question established theory. I think there is a barrage of misinformation that is largely motivated by lobbyists, special interests, and politicians. I wonder why it's important to feed that into a Mennonite forum.

There is also some research that established view. For instance, there are two groups that analyze satellite temperature data quite differently. But nobody seems interested in discussing this in depth at a scientific level, and I don't think many people have the skills. But truth and knowledge require time and attention to detail. You use terms like "findings" and "scientists" and "data" when you don't really have any connection to any of that, positioning yourself as an expert who has disproven thinks you have not even read or understood.
Robert wrote:Lastly, it is fun to poke the bear at times. You make a really good bear. :wave:
Why is provoking people important on a Christian forum?

Does this topic qualify as a "useless controversy" here?
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Robert
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Robert »

Bootstrap wrote: Image

Seriously, I have no idea what that graph shows, and you don't either.
Again, short memory. Can I recommend Prevagen? It comes from jellyfish that have no brains, but somehow it will help our brain. I know it works, because that is what they say. I should not question it because some people acting like scientists claim it.

This chart reports the well established atmospheric contents of earth over the millennia. They used core sampling to get a good idea. I am sure it will be a little off from the actual, but close enough for an overview. It has been validated by several different research groups. Again, you accepted it once. Now you reject it.

Boot, it is settled science. Accept it or be named a atmospheric denier. If you do not accept it, I will call Bill Nye and he will come get you.
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Robert
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Re: Global Warning/Climate Change

Post by Robert »

And more data to show that the earth was a lot warmer at other times.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/201 ... dwana-spd/
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