Meanwhile, in Ireland

[temporal1]

It’s sad to witness monied entities/governments put extreme pressures on the peoples/countries of the world to adopt unwanted policies. One country after another .. no country too big or too small to avoid the mind-numbing pressure.

May 25 is the day Ireland will vote on abortion.
Today is that day.

Close results expected ..
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... referendum

[Josh]

Adopt unwanted policies? Unfortunately, public opinion in Ireland is mostly in favour of repeal, much as recently happened with the referendum on same-sex marriage. The pressure to repeal this is coming from within Ireland from Irish people, not from some external source:

The latest opinion polls indicate a majority for repeal, although undecided voters--estimated at between 14% and 20% of the total--could hold sway. Two polls published this week showed small increases in the yes vote, with one putting it at 56% and another at 52%.

[temporal1]

Adopt unwanted policies? Unfortunately, public opinion in Ireland is mostly in favour of repeal, much as recently happened with the referendum on same-sex marriage. The pressure to repeal this is coming from within Ireland from Irish people, not from some external source:

The latest opinion polls indicate a majority for repeal, although undecided voters--estimated at between 14% and 20% of the total--could hold sway. Two polls published this week showed small increases in the yes vote, with one putting it at 56% and another at 52%.

the mainstream reports/polls have their way of presenting information .. from what i gather from not-so-manstream sources, there is egregious propaganda/marketing, etc., that amounts to “tipping the scales” not unlike we experience in the U.S.

i’ve read similar happening in Australia, Mexico, Chile, various African nations .. the list goes on.
if you accept the mainstream without question, then, you have your answer.
i do not.

considering ALL that’s invested, for these elections to be so close, reflects a huge root disagreement.
with all they do, these elections “should be” consistent landslides: they are not.

when elections are so very close, i believe it would be wise for “the winner” to be humble, recognizing “the win” is precarious. elections are not like football games. it’s not over in the moment. lots of real people are directly affected and must live with the results for time to come.

unfortunately, football mentality seems to be “it” these days.
the results are unpleasant.

Yes. Ireland experienced the same from outsiders regarding ssm. With that fresh in their minds, they may hold up against it better this time.

the mainstream seems to believe if they say it loudly enough and often enough, it will be true.
like hillary’s win in 2016. (the very definition of propaganda.)

[Josh]

My impression of the average Irish person I know and speak to (which admittedly may not be the average) is that they are in favour of more liberal, progressive changes.

Opinion polls are surprisingly accurate, and I don't think the elections are fixed either. The referenda on same sex marriage passed in both Ireland and Australia, and that wasn't some conspiracy. The democratic populace actually do want these things - the majority of them - even if a vocal and sizeable minority, like you and me, are opposed to them.

[Bootstrap]

Maybe we can just pray for the outcome, asking God to protect the unborn.

[Hats Off]

Individuals living abroad are paying thousands of dollars just to go home and vote yes. It seems to me that government legislation mandating "no" isn't going to solve the issue. I don't believe I could vote "no" on an issue like this; the people will do what they want regardless of how I would vote. What are the chances of a child having a good life or learning the way of Jesus when he/she was brought into the world because mother wanted an abortion but did not have the resources? What kind of life will an unwanted child have?

[temporal1]

Maybe we can just pray for the outcome, asking God to protect the unborn.

for months, maybe a year, i have been praying with multitudes of others in Ireland, and in other countries, as they have been struggling hard with this upcoming vote. i have a few real life contacts that described “real life” on the ground in Ireland. they describe pressures from hollywood, different “idol” type leaders with more influence than they deserve. easy to find the evidence!

reports of bias on the part of FB, google, other social media, censoring prolife folks is sad .. questions of censorship are as real as any in the U.S., resentment from Ireland’s legal citizens+voters is great.

investing time+money to throw others’ elections is not “conspiracy” stuff.
it’s reality, altho, not reality we want to choose. it’s not the original purpose of “free elections.” it happens in the U.S., activists+lobbyists investing and traveling to different states and locations to throw votes.

it’s far from secret.
In instances they’ve succeeded, they are reported to openly celebrate and claim, “YAY! We threw that election our way!” When they openly admit it and celebrate, it’s no longer speculation. It’s recognition of facts.

A few years ago, i recall bloomberg chatting with letterman on late night tv, bragging about his personal involvement (his political PAC) in throwing an election in chicago .. david was a bit uncomfortable about bloomberg’s candor .. he did not question his guest, he agreed, and, moved the dialogue on. after, i tried to find the talk, it was not available. i tried to find it a few time, to no avail.

i’m afraid the years of clean elections are over.
some countries never had them. we in the U.S. tried.

for those with no moral compass, interferring in others’ elections is not a problem. it’s simply logical.

certainly, prayer is critical. with eyes-wide-open.
scriptures do not suggest Christians should be fools on earth. quite the opposite.
there is much to beware.

i don’t believe Ireland’s situation has been discussed on forum.
the vote may be nearly over now. i’m anxious about it, in empathy with them.
i presume most forum members have some idea how this situation is making its way, country by country .. mentioning one is just that: one of many, one after another. it’s premeditated+systematic.

my hope was for folks to join in prayer at this last hour before the vote is complete.
this is not a time for politics. that part’s pretty much over.

if MN had a prayer category, i probably would have submitted this matter for prayer in that specific category. as was done on MD. (i.e., i’m not the evil outsider suggesting worldly thoughts for this forum.)

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/ ... 47728.html

[DarkShallNotPrevail]

What are the chances of a child having a good life or learning the way of Jesus when he/she was brought into the world because mother wanted an abortion but did not have the resources? What kind of life will an unwanted child have?

The logic that dictates it's more merciful to abort an unwanted child because of potential suffering once they're born slips too easily into the logic that rationalizes euthanasia of handicapped and elderly people. Once we claim authority over someone's inherit right to live, we've straying very far from God's intent for His Kingdom.

The decision being made in Ireland is in God's hands, however, not ours. I personally will join my prayers with Boot for the safety of the unborn.

[Bootstrap]

I would definitely vote against abortion if I were in Ireland, but I'm not. And I will definitely join you in prayer on this.

I really do think it's better to simply ask for prayer or point to ways we can serve if that's what you want. Otherwise, we get lost in a discussion of who is trying to influence the election how on all sides, the accuracy of polling, etc. None of us are experts on that. It's hard to even have that discussion without getting lost in political tribalism.

http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 956#p34956

[Bootstrap]

Individuals living abroad are paying thousands of dollars just to go home and vote yes. It seems to me that government legislation mandating "no" isn't going to solve the issue. I don't believe I could vote "no" on an issue like this; the people will do what they want regardless of how I would vote. What are the chances of a child having a good life or learning the way of Jesus when he/she was brought into the world because mother wanted an abortion but did not have the resources? What kind of life will an unwanted child have?

When I worked with handicapped children, I heard several talks from handicapped people who pointed out that people like them were being aborted regularly. They were asking why anyone should presume to say that it would be better if they had not been born.

I would rather find ways for Christians to help that child have a better life. In some ways, I suspect that a more consistent witness by Christians in Ireland might have kept this from heading this way. Abuses in the homes for unwed mothers have really hurt the credibility of Christian witness on this subject. So has sexual abuse in the church.

Lord have mercy.