Evolution

[silentreader]

Yet the light shows events in sequence unfolding over millions of years.

This supposes God made the universe as some kind of movie theatre, showing supernovas happening that never actually happened.

This is assuming a postulation that the speed of light has been constant since the creation.

As well as assuming that the speed of light is constant everywhere in the universe.

As well as recognizing that God created light first, even before what we consider the sources of light.

[Josh]

The speed of light is some pretty well established science.

Of course, it’s possible the universe was different in the past. But then time itself might have been different in the past too. The observed universe doesn’t look 6,000 years old. Does the Bible command us to believe that it is anyway?

[silentreader]

The speed of light is some pretty well established science.

Of course, it’s possible the universe was different in the past. But then time itself might have been different in the past too. The observed universe doesn’t look 6,000 years old. Does the Bible command us to believe that it is anyway?

This age of the universe thing is not something I intend to debate because there are too many unknowns, but the observed universe probably didn't look billions of years old to our Anabaptist forefathers, simply because the thought never crossed their mind.
If we believe God created living things, animal and vegetable, not as seeds, or eggs, or new-born but at least mostly with appearance of age, why is it not possible that He created everything with appearance of age, as a working cosmos prepared for the creation of man? Not with intent to deceive, it only becomes deception to us when we question how it was done. In whatever way it was done, He looked upon it and said it was very good. We've come a long way, baby.

[Josh]

How is the appearance of age and actually being old any different?

[silentreader]

How is the appearance of age and actually being old any different?

Wow, do you really not know what I'm taking about?

[Josh]

How is the appearance of age and actually being old any different?

Wow, do you really not know what I'm taking about?

Basically, you are saying the whole universe could be set up to trick us to think it’s old when it actually isn’t. While that’s true, from our point of view they would be the same thing.

It seems like it would be unimportant what one’s opinion is on the age of the universe. “6,000 years, but made to look like it’s millions of years old, complete with pictures and images streaming to earth of supernovas they never actually happened” and “millions of years old” seem essentially the same thing.

[silentreader]

How is the appearance of age and actually being old any different?

Wow, do you really not know what I'm taking about?

Basically, you are saying the whole universe could be set up to trick us to think it’s old when it actually isn’t. While that’s true, from our point of view they would be the same thing.

It seems like it would be unimportant what one’s opinion is on the age of the universe. “6,000 years, but made to look like it’s millions of years old, complete with pictures and images streaming to earth of supernovas they never actually happened” and “millions of years old” seem essentially the same thing.

Notice that I had said, "not with intent to deceive..."

[Josh]

I guess someone could be upfront and say, “What you see out the window isn’t real but is just a very realistic movie.” So they wouldn’t be intending to deceive.

It still seems odd, and the scripture never says that God made the world that day. Instead the scripture doesn’t really speculate at all about things like the age of the universe, or even how time itself came to exist.

[silentreader]

I guess someone could be upfront and say, “What you see out the window isn’t real but is just a very realistic movie.” So they wouldn’t be intending to deceive.

It still seems odd, and the scripture never says that God made the world that day. Instead the scripture doesn’t really speculate at all about things like the age of the universe, or even how time itself came to exist.

You're still either missing or avoiding the point. I'm not talking about pictures or movies or anything like that. I'm saying that the God I believe in is big enough that He could have created all the observable universe, including supernovae, completely in situ if He so chose. Did He do that? I don't know. But I have no reason to believe He didn't.

[ken_sylvania]

The speed of light is some pretty well established science.

Of course, it’s possible the universe was different in the past. But then time itself might have been different in the past too. The observed universe doesn’t look 6,000 years old. Does the Bible command us to believe that it is anyway?

I am certainly not in a position to argue against the scientific consensus that the speed of light is constant everywhere in the universe.

But I still wonder sometimes. How can we prove that all of our "light-speed" measurements in outer space are correct? There is much we don't know about how time, energy and space interact. Is the speed of light the same in the spaces between the stars as it is close to the sun.

Scientists speak very convincingly about their ability to measure the speed of stars and galaxies, as they move toward or away from the earth. They say that they can tell the composition of a star by looking at the light that it gives out.
I wonder sometimes - can we be sure about all of this? We've never been out there to take a sample. Are there other factors involved that we simply know nothing about. Are there undiscovered chemicals in these stars that are affecting spectral lines of the light emissions from these stars?

I suspect the scientists are correct (about constant speed of light, etc), but it's still fun to think about the possibilities!!!