joshuabgood wrote:Dan and Wayne, in your interpretation was Adam a literal man and the first man? And does it matter if he wasn't...in your view? And do you think there was a literal global Flood?
I don't know. How does that sound? Why do we have to "know" or make judgment on very question? There are many mysteries in the spiritual realm and in the physical realm. Humility forces me to say, with regards to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin: "I don't know,".
I will say that the concept of a literal "global flood" gives me problems, but nowhere do the scripture mention a "global flood".
joshuabgood wrote:Dan and Wayne, in your interpretation was Adam a literal man and the first man? And does it matter if he wasn't...in your view? And do you think there was a literal global Flood?
In faith, I believe the biblical narrative, that Adam was a literal man, with a literal wife, literal offspring, and that he was given 930 literal years of life on God's good earth. And yes, I believe the scripture declaring Adam to be the first man - in particular, that he was the first being created in God's image...into whom God breathed the breath of life. It matters to me that Adam holds this distinction because it seems to matter within scripture. I also believe in a literal Noah and a literal catastrophic flood as the Bible describes it.
However I will echo Wayne's call to humility in pressing the details here. I have no problem both affirming in faith the biblical narrative, and at the same time recognizing that I "see through a glass darkly." There most certainly is unknowable mystery in the physical particulars surrounding these ancient accounts - I'm cool with that.
joshuabgood wrote:Dan and Wayne, in your interpretation was Adam a literal man and the first man? And does it matter if he wasn't...in your view? And do you think there was a literal global Flood?
In faith, I believe the biblical narrative, that Adam was a literal man, with a literal wife, literal offspring, and that he was given 930 literal years of life on God's good earth. And yes, I believe the scripture declaring Adam to be the first man - in particular, that he was the first being created in God's image...into whom God breathed the breath of life. It matters to me that Adam holds this distinction because it seems to matter within scripture. I also believe in a literal Noah and a literal catastrophic flood as the Bible describes it.
However I will echo Wayne's call to humility in pressing the details here. I have no problem both affirming in faith the biblical narrative, and at the same time recognizing that I "see through a glass darkly." There most certainly is unknowable mystery in the physical particulars surrounding these ancient accounts - I'm cool with that.
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Noah was a conspiracy theorist...and then it began to rain.~Unknown
Dan, Josh, Wayne, whoever-
In Judges 1:4 it says that Judah slew ten thousand men in Bezek. There are people who would believe that exactly 10,000 men were killed, not 10,001 or 9,999. But most people I presume read this as a round number and do not make it a litmus test of ones Christianity. Maybe the exact number was 8,936 or 12,447.
Are you saying that Genesis 1 could be or should be like Judges 1:4?
I think there is a difference in the two.
RZehr wrote:Dan, Josh, Wayne, whoever-
In Judges 1:4 it says that Judah slew ten thousand men in Bezek. There are people who would believe that exactly 10,000 men were killed, not 10,001 or 9,999. But most people I presume read this as a round number and do not make it a litmus test of ones Christianity. Maybe the exact number was 8,936 or 12,447.
Are you saying that Genesis 1 could be or should be like Judges 1:4?
I think there is a difference in the two.
Well, Genesis 1 never states the age of universe (for example, did any time elapse before the first day of creation)? But yes I would take the same approach to Judges as I do the genealogies in Genesis.
RZehr wrote:Dan, Josh, Wayne, whoever-
In Judges 1:4 it says that Judah slew ten thousand men in Bezek. There are people who would believe that exactly 10,000 men were killed, not 10,001 or 9,999. But most people I presume read this as a round number and do not make it a litmus test of ones Christianity. Maybe the exact number was 8,936 or 12,447.
Are you saying that Genesis 1 could be or should be like Judges 1:4?
I think there is a difference in the two.
I agree that in Judges it need not be exact, and that it was somewhere in the range of 10,000, as you said, and not 10 million. Making 6 days mean millions of years is quite a difference.
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Almighty, most holy God
Faithful through the ages
Almighty, most holy Lord
Glorious, almighty God
RZehr wrote:Dan, Josh, Wayne, whoever-
In Judges 1:4 it says that Judah slew ten thousand men in Bezek. There are people who would believe that exactly 10,000 men were killed, not 10,001 or 9,999. But most people I presume read this as a round number and do not make it a litmus test of ones Christianity. Maybe the exact number was 8,936 or 12,447.
Are you saying that Genesis 1 could be or should be like Judges 1:4?
I think there is a difference in the two.
Well, Genesis 1 never states the age of universe (for example, did any time elapse before the first day of creation)? But yes I would take the same approach to Judges as I do the genealogies in Genesis.
What’s your personal opinion of what happened in Genesis 1 - 2:3 in relation to time? Where do you place billions of years? How long from 1:5 to 2:3?
I’m just curious.
One important point to remember here. Though you may not believe it, there is no evidence in anything that that can be counted or measured that indicates that the universe is as young as 6000 years. All measurable evidence indicates that the earth is very, very old and that the universe is older still - billions of years.
If you want to convince skeptics of the authenticity of the resurrection of Jesus and to lead them to believe what he said, starting with a story of creation recorded several thousand years before the number "zero" was even discovered will likely lead them away from God, not toward Him.
If your own personal faith rests on the necessity for the chronology of Genesis 1 to be precise and accurate then so be it. You are free to reject the observations of physics, chemistry and biology and the validity of mathematics. As no precise dates are given in Genesis, and as very little detail of chemistry, physics and biology are given in the Genesis account of creation, then I don't think the account was ever intended to expound on science. I the end I simply cannot equate "faith" in a book with faith in Jesus and I think we are doing Him a disservice to tie the two together. If you told people that to believe in Jesus you must believe that the sky is green do you think you would convert many people? That is what it sounds like when some insist that to believe in Jesus you must believe that Genesis is a literal account of natural history and a precise description of the cosmos.
BTW. I'm surprised that while there are many young earthers on this forum there are no flat earthers here.
RZehr wrote:Dan, Josh, Wayne, whoever-
In Judges 1:4 it says that Judah slew ten thousand men in Bezek. There are people who would believe that exactly 10,000 men were killed, not 10,001 or 9,999. But most people I presume read this as a round number and do not make it a litmus test of ones Christianity. Maybe the exact number was 8,936 or 12,447.
Are you saying that Genesis 1 could be or should be like Judges 1:4?
I think there is a difference in the two.
Well, Genesis 1 never states the age of universe (for example, did any time elapse before the first day of creation)? But yes I would take the same approach to Judges as I do the genealogies in Genesis.
What’s your personal opinion of what happened in Genesis 1 - 2:3 in relation to time? Where do you place billions of years? How long from 1:5 to 2:3?
I’m just curious.
I do not believe that God intends for the Genesis account of His creation to be understood as a chronological account, so to me the question is irrelevant.