Don't forget the resurrection of Lazarus and the Ascension of Jesus.RZehr wrote:Look what else has been thoroughly disproven by science.
Young earth
Jesus resurrection
Jesus virgin birth
Various and sundry miracles
Why do you choose faith over science on these issues?
Evolution
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Re: Evolution
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Noah was a conspiracy theorist...and then it began to rain.~Unknown
- Dan Z
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Re: Evolution
For me, the issue in Genesis 1 is not science disproving a miracle, or choosing science over faith...but rather an issue of "rightly dividing the word of truth."silentreader wrote:Don't forget the resurrection of Lazarus and the Ascension of Jesus.RZehr wrote:Look what else has been thoroughly disproven by science.
Young earth
Jesus resurrection
Jesus virgin birth
Various and sundry miracles
Why do you choose faith over science on these issues?
Creation, by any measure, is perhaps God's greatest miracle - out of nothing he spoke the universe into being! Science can't tell us how it (or any other miracle) happened, but if it did in reality happen there should be evidence of it's occurrence - and the evidence of that miracle is all around us isn't it? Look at the stars! The mountains!! The trees and birds and animals!!! Look at that moment when evidence shows all the matter in the universe burst forth from a single point in a flash of cosmic light!!! Science observes all of these things, and people of faith are right to ask - "Hath not the hand of the Lord done this?"
Science can't tell us how Christ rose from the dead - but the empty tomb bears witness! Hallelujah!! His bones are not there.
Science has no explanation for water turning into wine - yet the guests drank their fill! It has no explanation for the blind seeing or the deaf hearing or the lame walking - yet there they are - seeing and hearing and leaping for joy!
Science may doubt the existence of miracles - because it is it is bound to understand reality based on proven natural laws - but it cannot "disprove" a miracle has occurred...unless evidence shows that it didn't, or unless a second miracle conclusively covered up the evidence of the first - but that seems contrary to the nature of God doesn't it?
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Re: Evolution
I'm good with everything else you said, but I guess here we part ways, and that's fine, it seems that is the way it is going to be, let us go on to more edifying things, and I'm not referring to politics.Dan Z wrote:For me, the issue in Genesis 1 is not science disproving a miracle, or choosing science over faith...but rather an issue of "rightly dividing the word of truth."silentreader wrote:Don't forget the resurrection of Lazarus and the Ascension of Jesus.RZehr wrote:Look what else has been thoroughly disproven by science.
Young earth
Jesus resurrection
Jesus virgin birth
Various and sundry miracles
Why do you choose faith over science on these issues?
Creation, by any measure, is perhaps God's greatest miracle - out of nothing he spoke the universe into being! Science can't tell us how it (or any other miracle) happened, but if it did in reality happen there should be evidence of it's occurrence - and the evidence of that miracle is all around us isn't it? Look at the stars! The mountains!! The trees and birds and animals!!! Look at that moment when evidence shows all the matter in the universe burst forth from a single point in a flash of cosmic light!!! Science observes all of these things, and people of faith are right to ask - "Hath not the hand of the Lord done this?"
Science can't tell us how Christ rose from the dead - but the empty tomb bears witness! Hallelujah!! His bones are not there.
Science has no explanation for water turning into wine - yet the guests drank their fill! It has no explanation for the blind seeing or the deaf hearing or the lame walking - yet there they are - seeing and hearing and leaping for joy!
Science may doubt the existence of miracles - because it is it is bound to understand reality based on proven natural laws - but it cannot "disprove" a miracle has occurred...unless evidence shows that it didn't, or unless a second miracle conclusively covered up the evidence of the first - but that seems contrary to the nature of God doesn't it?
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Noah was a conspiracy theorist...and then it began to rain.~Unknown
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- JimFoxvog
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Re: Evolution
Miracles are not disproven by science. They are just contrary to the assumptions made when doing science. All that science can say is that virgin births, resurrections, and other miracles don't happen naturally. I agree.RZehr wrote:Look what else has been thoroughly disproven by science.
Young earth
Jesus resurrection
Jesus virgin birth
Various and sundry miracles
Why do you choose faith over science on these issues?
The creation scientists try to make a case for a young earth. The case is stronger than traditional scientists presume, but I'm not sure it's convincing.
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- Josh
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Re: Evolution
One of my complaints with creation “science” is they try to make a case for non-miraculous creation.
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Re: Evolution
I would say the"Anabaptist Forum" group are not making a case for non-miraculous creation, but they seem to arguing for a scientific explanation to prove the miracle of God's creation, one that proves that all other scientific explanations for how life and matter came about, are wrong.Josh wrote:One of my complaints with creation “science” is they try to make a case for non-miraculous creation.
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Re: Evolution
That seems dangerous. Phyiscal evidence helps me believe in God’s word but it can’t be the main reason. Especially when creation “science” keeps changing throughout the years. It’s basically a foundation built on sand.Hats Off wrote:I would say the"Anabaptist Forum" group are not making a case for non-miraculous creation, but they seem to arguing for a scientific explanation to prove the miracle of God's creation, one that proves that all other scientific explanations for how life and matter came about, are wrong.Josh wrote:One of my complaints with creation “science” is they try to make a case for non-miraculous creation.
We should believe in the simple message of the gospel (the evidence is Jesus’ resurrection and seeing changed lives set free from sin), and the simple message that God created the heavens and earth and called it good. How exactly he did that is a mystery!
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Re: Evolution
Dan and Wayne, in your interpretation was Adam a literal man and the first man? And does it matter if he wasn't...in your view? And do you think there was a literal global Flood?
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- Dan Z
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Re: Evolution
Most miracles are considered miracles because they run counter to the laws of nature (e.g.the dead coming to life, water turning to wine, the Sun standing still, etc.). But this understanding of the miraculous is too narrow...
God's greatest miracle is Creation itself - and the natural laws that Scripture says he has set in place to give it order. Who among us has not marveled at the wonder of it all - and felt God's presence in the witness of his handiwork? David certainly did as he recognized the stars declared the glory of God. God told Job to ask the animals and birds who has done all this. And the miracle of new life has been recognized for all of time. Nature is miraculous...it is "God's other book" because it bears the fingerprints of the character, power, and creative genius of the Creator.
In this sense, as science learns about the laws and functioning of nature it proves the miraculous - and the more it discovers, the more miraculous it all becomes - especially to those who recognize the hand of the Creator it behind it all. It is one of the prime reasons I love science!
God's greatest miracle is Creation itself - and the natural laws that Scripture says he has set in place to give it order. Who among us has not marveled at the wonder of it all - and felt God's presence in the witness of his handiwork? David certainly did as he recognized the stars declared the glory of God. God told Job to ask the animals and birds who has done all this. And the miracle of new life has been recognized for all of time. Nature is miraculous...it is "God's other book" because it bears the fingerprints of the character, power, and creative genius of the Creator.
In this sense, as science learns about the laws and functioning of nature it proves the miraculous - and the more it discovers, the more miraculous it all becomes - especially to those who recognize the hand of the Creator it behind it all. It is one of the prime reasons I love science!
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