Your Story

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
Sudsy
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Re: Your Story

Post by Sudsy »

It's getting late and I'll get back to your question tomorrow. My mouse is acting up so it might be later. Have a good Sunday !
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Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Wade
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Re: Your Story

Post by Wade »

Thank you Sudsy. A far bit more liberal than I lean but I do appreciate some of Greg's points in this message and his thoughts about having a opinion compared to serving like Christ.

This CD from David Bercot about the Kingdom of God is what I ended up eventually giving to that man I mentioned I talked to about being saved:


I have enjoyed getting to discuss this, thank you. I still have lots to learn and help in expressing correctly.
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Sudsy
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Re: Your Story

Post by Sudsy »

Wade wrote: I want to agree always with scripture, and believe that the epistles are to be understood through Jesus's teachings rather than Christ being understood through the epistles. Not to say the epistles are wrong in anyway but when there seems to be conflict then I feel I have missed something with Christ.
Christ proclaimed the reason He was sent in Luke 4:23 - the kingdom of God. Obviously that was not His only reason as yes He died for our transgressions, but I also believe that if someone accepts Christ so they can be saved - they actually may not be according to Christ's words in the sermon on the Mount saying to those calling Him Lord, Lord to depart from Him saying they are workers of iniquity. And Him also saying that someone looking to save His life will lose it but those who give up their life for His sake and the Gospels will save it. If the gospel is a save "me" gospel then what is Christ talking about giving up our life for the gospel?
I do agree with Romans just fine and salvation through Him but often the trouble is that the message that is giving is incomplete and so most miss the kingdom and what Jesus said about seeking it first and His righteousness.
I don't know who all are saved or not? That is between them and God but I do recognize Jesus said there will be few.
To me difference often is a serious sincere heartfelt humble committment, which when we get to know Him better; we can't help but to be drawn deeper by His amazing love and sacrifice.

Recently someone asked, "What do you figure?"
I replied, "What's the equation?"
He said, "I don't know? You always seem so happy. I thought you had it all figured out."
I answered, "I'm saved." :P
To reply to the sentence I bolded - I would suggest that 'giving up our life' can also be taken as addressing "me". To me, this means 'repent'. Turn our back on the life we now live (lose it/drop it) , make Christ our Lord and Saviour and in this we will find real and everlasting life. If a 'save me gospel' does not include repentance, then this new life cannot be entered into. A belief that is only an intellectual agreement that what Jesus did will save us without a willingness to make Him Lord as well as Saviour is not losing one's old life.

And there are those that want it both ways. Hold unto my old life where I call the shots, don't repent (turn) and also have a relationship with God. Others repent as in turning to a new religious way of life but did not believe in their heart to enter into a personal relationship with God through the Holy Spirit. Jesus will in the end say, 'I never knew you'.

I shudder when I hear a TV evangelist say 'Pray this little prayer ----- and now we believe you have been born again'. It really doesn't matter what that preacher believes about following those instructions, does it ? God knows the heart and hopefully the person will get into a bible believing church where they will know in a short time if they have truly been born again.

So, I don't mind the Gospel being said to be about personal salvation when both repentance and heart belief in what Jesus did to save us is involved. Sadly, imo, repentance is not preached enough to confront people with their willingness or lack of willingness to become a slave of our Master. In our culture it sounds too against our freedoms to live life the way we want to live it.

Thanks again for pointing out the video. I will watch it. So far, I don't understand why few don't join in threads of this nature. Seems secular threads get lots of attention. But then again, I often run into the same disinterest at church. I, too, have much to learn and wish more experienced and fruitful in their soul winning would participate.
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Hats Off
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Re: Your Story

Post by Hats Off »

I find it interesting that you mention "the Romans road." A good friend of ours, formerly the head administrator of a missionary training school and a missionary trainer, wrote an article titled "The Plateau on the Romans Road." I can't find the article easily but what I remember mainly is that he said so many people come so far on the Romans road to where they say "I believe" but he said most reach a plateau at this point. They never go on to really live the life of a believer.

I agreed with what he was saying and saved the article for that reason - but we would have said that those people who plateaued were more like King Agrippa when he said to Paul "You almost persuade me to become a Christian."
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Sudsy
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Re: Your Story

Post by Sudsy »

Hats Off wrote:I find it interesting that you mention "the Romans road." A good friend of ours, formerly the head administrator of a missionary training school and a missionary trainer, wrote an article titled "The Plateau on the Romans Road." I can't find the article easily but what I remember mainly is that he said so many people come so far on the Romans road to where they say "I believe" but he said most reach a plateau at this point. They never go on to really live the life of a believer.

I agreed with what he was saying and saved the article for that reason - but we would have said that those people who plateaued were more like King Agrippa when he said to Paul "You almost persuade me to become a Christian."
Yes, the 'Romans road' of scriptures can be received as some kind of formula or religious steps of obedience that will eternally save us. There are others like the '4 Spiritual laws', 'The Way of the Master', etc etc and none of these in themselves will save anyone.

Some here may not know the scriptures used in this chain of scriptures in the book of Romans (and some use less of these in the chain) so I will list them - Romans 3:23, 3:10, 6:23, 5:8, 10:9, 10:13, 5:1, 8:1, 8:38-39. Perhaps some do not grasp the importance of the first 5 verses, especially the 5th and then get the following assurance verses which are great but not if one does not submit to Jesus as Lord and release control of their life to Him. Many want Him as Saviour but not as Lord. With that said, although I believe and acknowledge that He is Lord, I struggle to make Him Lord in every area in my own life. But I think a new heart brings up a desire and pursuing to submit to Him as Lord.

A comment on your statement - 'They never go on to really live the life of a believer.' One of the areas that doesn't make sense to me is after someone believes what is in these Romans chain of scriptures or other scriptures used to point people to Jesus, they are left on their own or mostly on their own with maybe a couple things to read when they really need some very early feedings of spiritual milk as a new born believer. We should have those in our churches who are willing to be available 24/7 to begin the making of a disciple. During these days it doesn't take long to know who has and who has not obtained a new heart and disposition towards following Jesus.

Thankfully my parents had these early close believers to help them thru these early days. Actually, my father, saved in a Pentecostal church, had a Plymouth Brethren come along side him to be his closest mentor. Regardless of differing secondary issues and neither were swayed to the other's church, they were great encouragements to each other. Their unity in Christ was not lost by secondary beliefs.

But, I guess, if one is in a church that is never seeing the unchurched become Christ followers, they won't need any of this early making of a disciple. And some who do still have 'altar calls' (even quite different from the founder of these Charles Finney) or some opportunity to declare one's new Christ following, do have some good, hands on baby sitting for new converts. I was in such a church years ago and will never forget that very busy and wonderful time in my life. Many of those unchurched converts are still serving the Lord in various ministries and keen on making disciples.

An example of evangelism I recently experienced - some young fellow did some evangelism on me the other day and wondered just how this might be received by an unchurched person. I was going thru the Tim Horton's Coffee drive thru and when I went to pay, the cashier said the fellow ahead of you bought yours and your wife's coffee and wanted you to have this little note. On the note, it read 'Jesus Loves You'. Of course, we were thrilled to see an attempt to share a belief that Jesus loves us and wished we could have encouraged him in some way and shared experiences. But that was it - a little piece of paper saying 'Jesus Loves You'. And perhaps this was one in a series of steps being used by God to draw others to Himself. I wondered if this was a way taught to him in his learning to be a disciple.

So, it made me think about the seed idea where some plant, some water and some are there for the harvest. I think a disciple will be participating in one or more of these and a church should always see some harvesting if they are planting and watering to see a harvest. Jesus said the harvest is plentiful. The problem is labourers which in another word would be disciples.
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Hats Off
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Re: Your Story

Post by Hats Off »

My friend is with a Plymouth Brethern type of church - I think he wasn't so much talking about people from outside the church as he was referring to people who regularly attended the meetings but just never progressed beyond believing.
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Sudsy
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Re: Your Story

Post by Sudsy »

Hats Off wrote:My friend is with a Plymouth Brethern type of church - I think he wasn't so much talking about people from outside the church as he was referring to people who regularly attended the meetings but just never progressed beyond believing.
My first question then would be have they been born again ? I believe there are people following some brand of Christianity and the reason why they don't progress beyond believing is because they believe in their heads only but not in their heart. They converted to a religion to follow and not Christ.

On the other hand 1 Cor 3 speaks of a baby state spiritually. This then sounds like what your friend was referring to. I think to some extent, people remain babes because they never are taught to feed themselves. They are told what to do and how to do it and they don't develop a personal spiritual relationship with the Holy Spirit. Spiritual topics just appear too mystical for them. They may do good deeds because it is expected of them and live according to their church's expectations but have very little concern for people's souls and their own spiritual growth. Watchman Nee says the church is overstuffed with big babies.

Spirituality isn't in some kind of wonderful mysterious thought or thoughts about Christ or about prophecy or about the old or the new covenant, it isn't about that. Rather it is about actual spiritual experience. Not just what you know, but how what you know affects your walk and experience of God in your life. Walking in the Spirit is very important to anyone pursuing maturity in Christ. It is practical and not just a phrase to repeat. It is a moment by moment experience. An on-going development process of the fruit that the Spirit produces in us if we co-operate.

A spiritual babe wants others to find them food, bring it to them and feed them. They quit praying and are just satisfied with being prayed for. Spiritual work is the preacher's job and that is what they pay him to do. So, they live off another. I do what my bishop, pastor or priest tells me to do. Babes also get into strifes and quarrels. Envy and division. They cry and pout to get things their way. And some scream and yell and in one church in our city, actually threw things at one another. I think some splits, although cloaked to be spiritual growing, are nothing more than babes not getting their own way and demanding a different meal. Personally, in certain areas I feel very immature spiritually, still a babe. More than I care to admit to. I think we do grow in certain areas quicker than in others.

The Romans road of scriptures can direct us to begin our spiritual walk with God and give us some immediate scriptures on assurance of our salvation but don't let anyone tell you that you are now saved. One better know it for themselves through experience in a new walk with God. We don't want to hear that 'sorry I never knew you' that is often quoted here.
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silentreader
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Re: Your Story

Post by silentreader »

Sudsy wrote:
Hats Off wrote:My friend is with a Plymouth Brethern type of church - I think he wasn't so much talking about people from outside the church as he was referring to people who regularly attended the meetings but just never progressed beyond believing.
My first question then would be have they been born again ? I believe there are people following some brand of Christianity and the reason why they don't progress beyond believing is because they believe in their heads only but not in their heart. They converted to a religion to follow and not Christ.

On the other hand 1 Cor 3 speaks of a baby state spiritually. This then sounds like what your friend was referring to. I think to some extent, people remain babes because they never are taught to feed themselves. They are told what to do and how to do it and they don't develop a personal spiritual relationship with the Holy Spirit. Spiritual topics just appear too mystical for them. They may do good deeds because it is expected of them and live according to their church's expectations but have very little concern for people's souls and their own spiritual growth. Watchman Nee says the church is overstuffed with big babies.

Spirituality isn't in some kind of wonderful mysterious thought or thoughts about Christ or about prophecy or about the old or the new covenant, it isn't about that. Rather it is about actual spiritual experience. Not just what you know, but how what you know affects your walk and experience of God in your life. Walking in the Spirit is very important to anyone pursuing maturity in Christ. It is practical and not just a phrase to repeat. It is a moment by moment experience. An on-going development process of the fruit that the Spirit produces in us if we co-operate.

A spiritual babe wants others to find them food, bring it to them and feed them. They quit praying and are just satisfied with being prayed for. Spiritual work is the preacher's job and that is what they pay him to do. So, they live off another. I do what my bishop, pastor or priest tells me to do. Babes also get into strifes and quarrels. Envy and division. They cry and pout to get things their way. And some scream and yell and in one church in our city, actually threw things at one another. I think some splits, although cloaked to be spiritual growing, are nothing more than babes not getting their own way and demanding a different meal. Personally, in certain areas I feel very immature spiritually, still a babe. More than I care to admit to. I think we do grow in certain areas quicker than in others.

The Romans road of scriptures can direct us to begin our spiritual walk with God and give us some immediate scriptures on assurance of our salvation but don't let anyone tell you that you are now saved. One better know it for themselves through experience in a new walk with God. We don't want to hear that 'sorry I never knew you' that is often quoted here.
In the same vein, A. W. Tozer said, "True conversion means radical repentance, a changed life, conscious forgiveness of sin and a spiritual rebirth."
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Noah was a conspiracy theorist...and then it began to rain.~Unknown
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