Evangelism, Empathy, and Christian Nationalism...

[Ken]

But it often looks like the same change happened here on MN. Some people here also downplayed the significance of Planet Hollywood. Some people here also seem enmeshed in political enemy narratives.

If we want to be an alternative, I think we have some work to do.

One can argue that PEOPLE should not be political.
And one can argue that CHURCHES should not be political.

The are two separate arguments. One does not necessarily lead to the other and vice versa.

I think BOTH politics and religion were healthier in this country when the two did not mix so much. And I mean that across the board from liberal to conservative.

Imo, Christianity focus goes downhill when people and churches get into politics. We have then lost an eternal perspective and have become worldy minded and too focused on the present things that have no eternal benefits. But with it in our face with all the media we now have, it is one of the biggest challenges to 'come out from among them' when we think we must keep informed. A big tool of deceit satan is using. One does not need to keep informed about all the current things happening in this world to be a witness but this is something Christianity has bought into and is an easy sidetrack to our mission here. I know because it has sidetracked me.

I tend to disagree, at least in part. In a democracy I do think politics is important. The word comes from "polis" meaning "people" in the ancient Greek. I do think when it comes to governing our own affairs here on earth that good people should participate. Whether it is local school boards and fire districts, or congress and the presidency. Citizens should be involved in the affairs of their state and should hold it accountable. No good comes of abandoning the political sphere to malevolent elites.

That said, we are not merely political creatures. There is far more to life that just politics and we need to learn to compartmentalize. There are many aspects of life that should not be political and that suffer when made to be so: religion, education, workplaces and the economy, recreation, even family (especially extended family). There is a time and place for political expression. Those are neither the time nor place for it. And they all suffer when politicized.

I think people inherently recognize this and generally know to keep politics out of some spheres. Most people aren't overtly political in the workplace and it usually goes over poorly when they are. When I coach youth soccer I have a diverse group of parents with whom we collaborate and socialize. People know better than to interject politics into that sphere.

My sense is that used to be more the case when it came to religion as well. Churches tended to be overtly nonpartisan because they recognized that they had diverse congregants from different walks of life and with different political opinions. Those days seem be a distant memory in many ways. And I don't think the change has been for the better.

[Josh]

The church (and by extension, King Jesus) has jurisdiction and authority over every single sphere of life.

Including politics.

[Josh]

So conservative Mennonites on MN have never downplayed the significance of the Access Hollywood tapes or engaged in political enemy narratives and political victim narratives?

CMs don’t have a duty to repeat whatever political talking points you think are important. You’re welcome to create threads in the Politics forum.

Most CMs prefer not to talk about Trump at all, but will respond if asked or someone else in the conversation takes it there.

That wasn't my impression.

Some conservative Mennonites don't do these things. Ernie and Dan Z, for instance. But some do, I think. Some do it regularly, perhaps daily.

Daily? Who starts new threads or new topics or derails threads daily?

Grace does advocate conservative politics regularly. As I call she is in an evangelical type of church that is comfortable with its members being involved in politics. I might disagree with her church on that matter but the fact is that politically conservative evangelical women post here on MN, and they have a right to put forward their political opinions.

I disagree.

Suppose that were true - wouldn't we see a bunch of threads about Trump's current legal challenges, and not just threads attacking the Bidens? Wouldn't we see a bunch of threads complaining that liberals are victims and the conservatives are out to get them and the whole system is unfair to liberals? That's not what I see here.

And I think the combination of strong political passion and denial is a really important part of the dynamic.

Do you really think MN needs more Trump threads?

Do we need more Bush threads? He was after all a notorious war criminal who got away with it. Maybe that should be getting more focus…

[Szdfan]

In a democracy I do think politics is important. The word comes from "polis" meaning "people" in the ancient Greek.

Hi... pedantic English teacher here. "Polis" doesn't mean "people," it means "city" (I.e. "cosmopolitan"). "Politics" then is the "affairs of the city."

[Ken]

In a democracy I do think politics is important. The word comes from "polis" meaning "people" in the ancient Greek.

Hi... pedantic English teacher here. "Polis" doesn't mean "people," it means "city" (I.e. "cosmopolitan"). "Politics" then is the "affairs of the city."

I guess my minimal classics education is fading! I stand corrected. But in any event, my point still stands. Politics is important but it should stay in its place and not permeate every part of our society.

[HondurasKeiser]

In a democracy I do think politics is important. The word comes from "polis" meaning "people" in the ancient Greek.

Hi... pedantic English teacher here. "Polis" doesn't mean "people," it means "city" (I.e. "cosmopolitan"). "Politics" then is the "affairs of the city."

I guess my minimal classics education is fading! I stand corrected. But in any event, my point still stands. Politics is important but it should stay in its place and not permeate every part of our society.

Ok I’m going to get pedantic too. The very idea of the polis was that it was society tout court; outside the polis existed chaos and disorder. The way to combat chaos was to order the polis through dialogue, debate and deliberation about every aspect of life. Read Plato’s Republic for the sine qua non of what the polis was supposed to look like. Plato wanted to proscribe everything from child rearing to when and where and who could have sexual intercourse.

I’m not advocating for that obviously and I too would like to see “politics” touch less of our lives. The only way to get there, I think, is through eschewing it altogether. Politics is war through other means, engaging it joins us to unsavory people engaged in “battle” with competing interests. That is not the way of Jesus

[ohio jones]

Daily? Who starts new threads or new topics or derails threads daily?

It's not the guy who posts train videos, most days he keeps things on track.

[Ken]

Ok I’m going to get pedantic too. The very idea of the polis was that it was society tout court; outside the polis existed chaos and disorder. The way to combat chaos was to order the polis through dialogue, debate and deliberation about every aspect of life. Read Plato’s Republic for the sine qua non of what the polis was supposed to look like. Plato wanted to proscribe everything from child rearing to when and where and who could have sexual intercourse.

I’m not advocating for that obviously and I too would like to see “politics” touch less of our lives. The only way to get there, I think, is through eschewing it altogether. Politics is war through other means, engaging it joins us to unsavory people engaged in “battle” with competing interests. That is not the way of Jesus

I respect that opinion but disagree. The actual Clausewitz quote is that war is politics by other means, not the other way around.

I think we have both religious obligations and civic obligations and I see nothing in the New Testament which suggests that Jesus taught anything different.

[GaryK]

Ok I’m going to get pedantic too. The very idea of the polis was that it was society tout court; outside the polis existed chaos and disorder. The way to combat chaos was to order the polis through dialogue, debate and deliberation about every aspect of life. Read Plato’s Republic for the sine qua non of what the polis was supposed to look like. Plato wanted to proscribe everything from child rearing to when and where and who could have sexual intercourse.

I’m not advocating for that obviously and I too would like to see “politics” touch less of our lives. The only way to get there, I think, is through eschewing it altogether. Politics is war through other means, engaging it joins us to unsavory people engaged in “battle” with competing interests. That is not the way of Jesus

I respect that opinion but disagree. The actual Clausewitz quote is that war is politics by other means, not the other way around.

I think we have both religious obligations and civic obligations and I see nothing in the New Testament which suggests that Jesus taught anything different.

What did Jesus mean by this?

“My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

[Sudsy]

No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier.

2 Timothy 2:4

I believe this indicates that if I am engaged in the battle for men's souls, I will not be entangled with the affairs of this life. When I am not that engaged for men's souls, affairs of this life detract me from the mission I have been sent to engage in. And, in my case, I still am too easily distracted by areas like politics.