Job openings, work needed

[mike]

i agree, and, hope he keeps the discussion going.
mike, as an employer, what is your experience with hiring? (if you care to share.)

people are interested in what employers are looking for.
lots of young people want to have encouragement they are working toward a goal.

In my experience as a grocery store owner, level of education has had very little to do with how well employees work out, and it's not something we look at much when hiring.

[temporal1]

i agree, and, hope he keeps the discussion going.
mike, as an employer, what is your experience with hiring? (if you care to share.)

people are interested in what employers are looking for.
lots of young people want to have encouragement they are working toward a goal.

In my experience as a grocery store owner, level of education has had very little to do with how well employees work out, and it's not something we look at much when hiring.

Right.
What do you look for? What do you reject? i know rejecting is hard. i’m guessing you have more applicants than job openings (?) not sure.

[mike]

Work ethic, good character, and reputation helps as well. We don't always know these things for sure when we hire. We always try to hire someone that is known to us or by someone else that can vouch for them, but this isn't always possible.

Right now we have had more openings than we can fill, which is unusual for this time of year. The other day I happened to visit a small number of stores on the same day, and noticed that each one of them had a "now hiring" sign on the door. There are a number of factors that influence how hard it is for an employer to find employees. But the "feel" right now is that there aren't as many people looking for work as there used to be.

[RZehr]

Yesterday I wrote a job description for a summer internship. Here is part of what I wrote.

Essential Functions:
(Order of Essential Functions does not indicate importance of functions)
Driving a pickup, communication skills both in email and verbal, within and without the company, an interest in agriculture and/or business, flexibility in duties outside of job description.

Success Factors:
Earning respect from coworkers. Showing an ability and desire to do the work that is needed to be done.

Job Qualifications:
Intuitiveness. Integrity. Industrious. Pleasant. Punctual.
College degree is a plus. Drivers license. Able to lift 50 pounds without straining.

[Haystack]

Yesterday I wrote a job description for a summer internship. Here is part of what I wrote.

Essential Functions:
(Order of Essential Functions does not indicate importance of functions)
Driving a pickup, communication skills both in email and verbal, within and without the company, an interest in agriculture and/or business, flexibility in duties outside of job description.

Success Factors:
Earning respect from coworkers. Showing an ability and desire to do the work that is needed to be done.

Job Qualifications:
Intuitiveness. Integrity. Industrious. Pleasant. Punctual.
College degree is a plus. Drivers license. Able to lift 50 pounds without straining.

Sign me up

[temporal1]

Home Depot / Shop Classes (not just for vets)
https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/ho ... ans-wanted

Wonder if Home Depot’s project is a spin-off of Mike Rowe’s projects?
http://www.thedailynewsonline.com/bdn01 ... plate=mbdn

[YorkandAdams]

One last comment,

My previous statements only pertained to educational quality.

I purposely did not factor in the positive atmosphere that a conservative Mennonite school has on its students. This is always the kicker given to me. I can't argue that this factor is extremely important in molding the next generation. My criticism is that this is often used as an excuse to dismiss the educational quality argument.

I find your comments quite interesting. I am not a teacher now, but taught four years in a conservative Anabaptist school, took three summer terms at Faith Builders, and then a number of credits from a distance learning program. The negative or dismissive attitudes toward education that you have encountered in conservative Anabaptist circles are familiar in my own background, which is in mostly Amish-derived conservative Mennonite circles that provide an eighth-grade education. However, my wife is from a conservative Mennonite background which, at least in the last 30-40 years, has placed some value in high school. In her circles, I found an appreciation for education that was quite different from what I grew up with, even though there is still a good degree of skepticism toward college.

I would suggest that some of the value of having a solid secondary education program is critical thinking skills, which in my opinion can be lacking in an eighth-grade level of education. Possibly this is one of the areas you have in mind when you talk about subject areas that aren't perceived as directly applicable to work skills. I would be interesting in hearing some specifics of what you mean by "areas of study that can not be directly applied."

i agree, and, hope he keeps the discussion going.
mike, as an employer, what is your experience with hiring? (if you care to share.)

people are interested in what employers are looking for.
lots of young people want to have encouragement they are working toward a goal.

While I was planning on staying quiet, it seems that a thoughtful discussion could potentially rejuvenate this thread. With that being said, it is my prayer that the words which have been written within this thread will be used to better the conservative Mennonite education system. I see tremendous value in having a church-run school that provides a godly environment for Christian parents to send their children.

I am currently working towards a bachelor’s degree in both a technical and business discipline. This experience has definitely shaped how I view education. While I am certainly not an expert on the subject, I have noticed the way education is viewed among conservative Anabaptists is a complete 180 from how I was taught. Growing up, my father made it clear to me that a bachelor’s degree was the minimum acceptable education level. Both of my parents have graduate-level degrees and put a lot of emphasis on education. While I am not as “hardline” on achieving a plethora of degrees, I do see tremendous value in a quality education.

As stated in the previous posts, I graduated from a middle class public high school. The school district had its mix of income levels but was a solid middle class district. I felt that the educational quality was fairly high and provided an opportunity to explore different areas of interest outside of the basic practical disciplines (math, reading, writing). Each subject had a least one teacher who specialized in the concentration which they taught. There was often advanced levels of courses offered in both the mathematics and sciences. In high school I took a rigorous mathematics course load consisting of Algebra, Geometry, Statistics, Trigonometry, and Calculus. In the sciences, I took Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and General Earth Sciences. Two years of foreign language was not required but was highly recommended (I took 2 years of Spanish). Along with the other required subjects like Social Studies and English, I also had the ability to choose extra circulars which were geared towards my interests and abilities. I had the opportunity to become active in multiple band, choir, and drama groups throughout high school. I enjoyed these experiences, and feel they helped provide a well-rounded secondary school education.

It seems to me that the small Mennonite church schools stress the core subjects (math, reading, and writing) on the fundamental level. We can all agree that these areas of study are important, and help provide the basic skillset needed to function in everyday life. The problem is that the subjects offered beyond this are often the minimum required by law. The teachers at these small schools often have a solid understanding of the fundamentals within the core subjects, but have never really had to study other subjects they are required to teach “in depth”. A high school teacher who teaches all students in 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th grade usually has a strong base in the core subjects, and even might be qualified to teach in an area of interest which he has learned thorough self-study. However this does not mean he is qualified to teach all of the courses that he has to by law. At one school that I am familiar with, the high school teacher only has a 9th grade education (not even a G.E.D.), yet he teaches up through the 12th grade. Anyone else see a problem with this model? I am not doubting he is a smart man, but I am going to question whether he is qualified to be in that positon. Multiple Mennonite teachers have told me that they see no need for formal school after what is required by law. Its almost like their saying “if the law says it’s okay, then it must be fine to do”. Some schools even practice “pulling” the kid out on their birthday (15 or 16 depending on area). “Why spend one more day in school then you need to”? Hopefully you can see that I have a great concern with the attitude towards education within these settings. The church school offered to members of my congregation only became accredited by the state to give high school degrees within the last 4 years. It’s embarrassing that this was only addressed 4 years ago and had never been considered important enough to correct before. While the rate of students finishing high school is increasing, the percentage is still abysmally low.

Now, back to your question as to what I mean by saying “subject areas not directly applicable to work skills”. I was specifically talking about any subject which is view by conservative Mennonites as not being a fundamental core subject (discussed in the previous paragraph). The number of subjects offered in a small school pales in comparison to what I was offered in high school. The reason for this is largely due to a lack of resources and teachers not being qualified to teach specialized subjects. Any high-level math or science course is pretty much off limits, and a lot of the soft sciences are pretty much considered enemy territory for conservative Mennonites. I know we are getting on dangerous ground, but areas like the arts come to mind. Reading round notes, being able to memorize lines in a play/improv a scene, studying the great philosophers, reading classic novels which helped shape American society. I felt all of these where important in helping me become a well-rounded individual. Every once in a while I will reference classic novels in a casual conversation with conservative Mennonites and in return will get blank stares back from everyone present. Like how could you not have read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn? I often find myself shaking my head in frustration of being in a culture which has such a poor attitude towards education. If my convictions did not line up with the church I am attending, I would certainly not stick around for the culture. The problem I have found is that a lot of my personal convictions are on the extremely conservative end of the spectrum and anything less conservative would (in my opinion) be rejecting where God has called me to be. It puts me in an interesting situation, to say the least.

And yes Mike, I have noticed critical thinking skills often lacking within the conservative Mennonite setting. On the flip side, there are many who have great problem-solving skills (especially among the farmers within my church). My opinion on farming has shifted quite dramatically since I have started interacting with them on a regular basis. In the end, as long as one’s occupation glorifies god and can provide a solid living for one’s family, then I have no problem with someone choosing an unskilled occupation. Would I make a good farmer, certainly not. God gives each of us different talents and abilities and getting up at dawn is not one of mine.

If I have not covered anything you wanted me to comment on, please let me know.

[RZehr]

I agree with most of your direct observations. I don’t sheer youre level of consern. Sum subjictes jest airnt impertunt.

[Josh]

“Well-rounded” subjects like you described churn out liberal progressives. A conservative Christian culture just doesn’t co-exist very long with chasing the things of the world.

The concept of high school education is a relatively new one; it would be prudent to research more into when it came into being and what its original purpose was. The answers might surprise you.

Ultimately, adopting progressive systems of education and higher education will lead to the same culture and results as the MC USA: shrinking congregations, no young people, and homosexual pastors. Goshen used to be as conservative as Faith Builders. Then EMU was founded because Goshen was getting too liberal.

Now EMU is a place where students can read round notes and explore the arts - such as trying to put on a play about how Jesus and the disciples were all homosexuals. If that’s where advanced education leads, I think we can do without.

[YorkandAdams]

“Well-rounded” subjects like you described churn out liberal progressives. A conservative Christian culture just doesn’t co-exist very long with chasing the things of the world.

The concept of high school education is a relatively new one; it would be prudent to research more into when it came into being and what its original purpose was. The answers might surprise you.

Ultimately, adopting progressive systems of education and higher education will lead to the same culture and results as the MC USA: shrinking congregations, no young people, and homosexual pastors. Goshen used to be as conservative as Faith Builders. Then EMU was founded because Goshen was getting too liberal.

Now EMU is a place where students can read round notes and explore the arts - such as trying to put on a play about how Jesus and the disciples were all homosexuals. If that’s where advanced education leads, I think we can do without.

Thank you for your opinion. I appreciate seeing the opposite side of the argument.

You raise valid concerns, and I will definitely have to look into the history of these schools. My research up to this point has largely been learning the differences in doctrine and application between the ultra and intermediate conservatives groups. I guess my main focus is to find out where God wants me, not necessarily where I feel the most comfortable. I would theoretically feel very comfortable in a BMA, but my convictions would not line up, so that kinda throws that option out for me.

I do have one question for you;

How long until faith builders becomes "EMU liberal"? Is it only a matter of time or does faith builders have a plan for combating this "cancer"?