Miscellaneous mental meanderings

[MaxPC]

It seems to me to NOT be against slavery if that is the culture in which you live.
It even goes on, it seems to me, to teach directly against seeking to change that culture. Verses 3-5
3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

And to give instruction how to please God as a slave.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

And how to view your master with compassion and concern.

9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Idk, verses 6 on can apply to all of us and could have applied to the slave or to the master, but I’m not sure how we as freedom loving people understand verses 1-5.
Does my worldview align with scripture?
I wish I could understand this differently, because I don’t want to change my position on slavery and that is a scary place to be.

My personal interpretation of these verses is summed up in verse 6: "But godliness with contentment is great gain. That in the overall picture it's theme and message pairs with Romans 8:28 and Philippians 4:11-13. Rather like Paul who found himself in prison and other uncomfortable circumstances, we should pursue Godliness and discipleship as an example for others no matter where we find ourselves. Sometimes the circumstances in which we find ourselves is where God has placed us for His mission to others. The book of Esther is a good example of this too.

It's not addressing political activism and social justice to change the culture which, in my opinion, is a distraction from discipleship growth - if every person concentrated on being the best disciple of Christ, that in and of itself would change the world: not political or social justice policies. Rather Paul speaks of being open to the fact that we are in a situation for a reason: that of being a witness to Christ to unbelievers.

YMMV

[Reflecting]

So Max, I understand what you are saying about focusing on your walk with Christ and not politics, but how would you have lived that out during the civil war? Would you have compassion on runaway slaves? Just keep quiet and keep your head down? Turn them in?

[Hats Off]

I would like to think that what was being done to slaves at that time was so far out of line that all of us here would have attempted to help them escape to freedom. I don't think we have any scripture that would forbid that. Some of the words of Jesus and Paul were addressed to specific situations and people. When Jesus told the soldiers to be content with their wages, he wasn't suggesting that the military would be an ideal career choice for us. The words that Paul addressed to Philemon were also personal, even though we can learn from them.

Please don't change your worldview on this issue. We have too many scriptures that point to the way of love for fellow travellers. When our understanding of a particular scripture seems to be wrong, we can usually find other scriptures that show we indeed have a wrong understanding.

[MaxPC]

So Max, I understand what you are saying about focusing on your walk with Christ and not politics, but how would you have lived that out during the civil war? Would you have compassion on runaway slaves? Just keep quiet and keep your head down? Turn them in?

We use Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan to inform our actions about the culture and the people. In that parable, Jesus emphasized that it was the Samaritan who saw a need immediately before him and simply took care of it. He did not form a committee to address crime nor did he see the need to lobby for it. He just picked the victim up and saw to his needs.

Historically this is how our Catholic teachings dealt with such things. A person in need appears and they saw to the needs without regard for political or military affiliation. During WWII we hid Jews in our seminaries and homes away from the Nazis. Quite a few of us had families involved in the underground railroad for runaway slaves. All they did was extend hospitality to a person or persons in need. Sometimes that meant breaking the law but as our Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches us:
When is a citizen forbidden to obey civil authorities?
A citizen is obliged in conscience not to obey the laws of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order: "We must obey God rather than men" (Acts of Apostles 5:29).
Further reading: CCC 2242-2243, 2256

We saw a need immediately before us and instead of getting into the political circus, we saw to the need even at the risk of imprisonment or death. Hopefully that clarifies how we view it?

[Reflecting]

Thank you Max. That would be very much in line with the way I’ve been taught as well.

[Reflecting]

I am curious if Timothy was written before or after Philemon. Anyone know right off?

[Reflecting]

This thought buried in Lamentations 3 shifted how I think of the question about how a good and all powerful God allows bad things to happen. Verse 33 says: “For He doth not afflict willingly...”
Did you ever think of God doing something unwillingly?
There are chores we all kinda grit our teeth about, but I never thought about God reluctantly doing His job. ...except the judgement. I know it says He is not willing that any should perish. But this passage goes on to give a list of things God does that He isn’t happy about doing.
This thought seems to even give fresh perspective to the chores I face with reluctance. God knows the feeling too. His disfavored jobs are w.a.y. worse than mine. I should just pull on my big girl pants, so to speak, and get er done.

[Bootstrap]

I am curious if Timothy was written before or after Philemon. Anyone know right off?

I have no idea. Is there anything in either book that would give a clue?

[Bootstrap]

So Max, I understand what you are saying about focusing on your walk with Christ and not politics, but how would you have lived that out during the civil war? Would you have compassion on runaway slaves? Just keep quiet and keep your head down? Turn them in?

How do you read Philemon? How did Paul relate to the runaway slave and his owner?

[Reflecting]

Now that things are finally leveling off at work again my mental meanderings have been tugging me back into the mennonet so I’ve been wandering the halls this evening and just wanted to swap howdies with some of y’all.