Recently attended an EPMC Bible School AMA

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
Sudsy
Posts: 5854
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: Recently attended an EPMC Bible School AMA

Post by Sudsy »

I don't know if this is common in some groups or just in some families but a raised Mennonite friend of mine told me about his upbringing and this is how they communicated at the supper table. After saying grace they were not allowed to speak until their father had finished eating, at which time he allowed each child to speak, one at a time, about their day. After everyone had a chance, the father would close the meal and excuse everyone from the table.

This was so strange to me, I couldn't believe my ears. My home was much the opposite. Sometimes children were told to allow someone else to speak. I remember the first get together our family had where my Mennonite friend was invited and I noticed how anxious he got. So, I asked him to step outside and asked if anything was wrong. He asked 'How do you do it ?' I said 'Do what ?' He said 'everyone is talking at the same, what should I do ?' I laughed and told him just to pick out the most interesting conversation and join in. I have to admit, our family was quite the extreme opposite of his family setting.

The other area that was so noticeably different was our shows of affection for one another. Hugs and kisses and sitting on one's knee and back rubs and things like that which were never taken as sexual moves or inappropriate in our family. He told me he never saw his mom and dad kiss or hold hands or show any noticeable signs of affection. I'm curious if this is a pretty common practise in some Mennonite groups and if so, what the reason is to hide openly showing affection. I do notice that I have not seen the Mennonite teens that hang out in their favourite local parking embracing one another. Actually for the most, the guys stay with the guys and the gals with the gals.

I wish we had more in the NT scriptures about how early Christians had 'fun'. Perhaps the 'joy of the Lord' filled them in their early days of spreading the Gospel that 'having fun' in other ways, just wasn't needed. Jesus was all about bringing joy to the hearts of mankind. James even tells us how we can be joyful in the worst of times. Seems to me we have considerable fun/happiness today through various entertainments but do we know and are experiencing the 'unspeakable joy' we sing about on Sunday -

Joy, unspeakable joy
An overflowing well, no tongue can tell
Joy unspeakable joy
Rises in my soul, never lets me go

Our MB church sounds much like this singing this song. Catch this part at the 1:44 minute mark.



What might this world think if they saw this kind of inner joy springing up in us throughout our day ? Sadly, many of us look like we just got baptised in dill pickle juice. I need to get back to the point in my life where I did experience this joy.

I guessed I'm wandering off on this thread but I appreciate all the sharing regarding the playing mentality.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Heirbyadoption
Posts: 1012
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:57 pm
Affiliation: Brethren

Re: Recently attended an EPMC Bible School AMA

Post by Heirbyadoption »

I'll attest to much of the above. Moving into the Cumberland Valley and living among a lot of Eastern/Nationwide/WashCo/etc, the repressed or highly restricted family and youth dynamics (and the cross conference dynamics) have boggled my mind at times. I'd never seen anything quite like it, except in a very few of our extreme conservatives.
0 x
Judas Maccabeus
Posts: 3878
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am
Location: Maryland
Affiliation: Con. Menno.

Re: Recently attended an EPMC Bible School AMA

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Josh wrote:
lesterb wrote:
ken_sylvania wrote: Not totally. Just its considered more of a school or family game. They do not want to encourage a "play mentality" among their youth.
I've known of youth excommunicated for playing volleyball in a non-family setting.
My understanding is the issue was that they were playing with youth at less conservative churches.
Wow. If playing volleyball with people from another conference was grounds for being excommunicated we would not have a conference left. Churches from other conferences participate in our winter Bible school.

J.M.
0 x
:hug:
lesterb
Posts: 1160
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:41 pm
Location: Alberta
Affiliation: Western Fellowship
Contact:

Re: Recently attended an EPMC Bible School AMA

Post by lesterb »

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Josh wrote:
lesterb wrote: I've known of youth excommunicated for playing volleyball in a non-family setting.
My understanding is the issue was that they were playing with youth at less conservative churches.
Wow. If playing volleyball with people from another conference was grounds for being excommunicated we would not have a conference left. Churches from other conferences participate in our winter Bible school.

J.M.
This particular case was that a girl invited a group of young folks to play volleyball. That might have worked some places, but not in this particular congregation. In that church, it can only be played on a family basis, or school children at school. And, I suspect, that girl in question was on the edge anyway and this pushed her over. As I recall, she was excommunicated and one or two of her friends. I don't remember all the details, but I don't think anyone from another church group was involved.
0 x
Sudsy
Posts: 5854
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: Recently attended an EPMC Bible School AMA

Post by Sudsy »

lesterb wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Josh wrote:
My understanding is the issue was that they were playing with youth at less conservative churches.
Wow. If playing volleyball with people from another conference was grounds for being excommunicated we would not have a conference left. Churches from other conferences participate in our winter Bible school.

J.M.
This particular case was that a girl invited a group of young folks to play volleyball. That might have worked some places, but not in this particular congregation. In that church, it can only be played on a family basis, or school children at school. And, I suspect, that girl in question was on the edge anyway and this pushed her over. As I recall, she was excommunicated and one or two of her friends. I don't remember all the details, but I don't think anyone from another church group was involved.
It is amazing to me how isolated from the world some Christians live. Home schooling and separate church schooling and very little contact in many areas of life when Jesus was the opposite in His practise. Seems His example and the 'come out from among them' scripture are quite a contradiction when put into practise by some. What does that say about the reality of being a new creation and given the ability through the Holy Spirit to 'go out among wolves' and to live out and share the Gospel ? I would like to have that explained to me by those who remove themselves so far from those Jesus came to save. Good thing the early church wasn't like that or we all would be 'the unchurched'.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Wade
Posts: 2683
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:09 am
Affiliation: kingdom Christian

Re: Recently attended an EPMC Bible School AMA

Post by Wade »

Sudsy wrote:
lesterb wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Wow. If playing volleyball with people from another conference was grounds for being excommunicated we would not have a conference left. Churches from other conferences participate in our winter Bible school.

J.M.
This particular case was that a girl invited a group of young folks to play volleyball. That might have worked some places, but not in this particular congregation. In that church, it can only be played on a family basis, or school children at school. And, I suspect, that girl in question was on the edge anyway and this pushed her over. As I recall, she was excommunicated and one or two of her friends. I don't remember all the details, but I don't think anyone from another church group was involved.
It is amazing to me how isolated from the world some Christians live. Home schooling and separate church schooling and very little contact in many areas of life when Jesus was the opposite in His practise. Seems His example and the 'come out from among them' scripture are quite a contradiction when put into practise by some. What does that say about the reality of being a new creation and given the ability through the Holy Spirit to 'go out among wolves' and to live out and share the Gospel ? I would like to have that explained to me by those who remove themselves so far from those Jesus came to save. Good thing the early church wasn't like that or we all would be 'the unchurched'.
You don't win people to Christ by being one of them, rather by being one with the world then you are the world and really have nothing to win them too.
"To live out," and share the gospel of the kingdom of God will seperate us from the world because we are separated into Him.

Why would teaching our children about God rather than letting the world teach them contrary to God be a contradiction?
Does that not rather affirm our commitment to His ways?
0 x
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23807
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: Recently attended an EPMC Bible School AMA

Post by Josh »

I recently ran into a situation where someone is planning the mission trips they want to go on based on the schedule of volleyball tournaments 5 months in advance. Without sharing too many personal details, some things are really out of whack about this.

Maybe the Easterns are on to something here.
0 x
Sudsy
Posts: 5854
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: Recently attended an EPMC Bible School AMA

Post by Sudsy »

Wade wrote:
Sudsy wrote: It is amazing to me how isolated from the world some Christians live. Home schooling and separate church schooling and very little contact in many areas of life when Jesus was the opposite in His practise. Seems His example and the 'come out from among them' scripture are quite a contradiction when put into practise by some. What does that say about the reality of being a new creation and given the ability through the Holy Spirit to 'go out among wolves' and to live out and share the Gospel ? I would like to have that explained to me by those who remove themselves so far from those Jesus came to save. Good thing the early church wasn't like that or we all would be 'the unchurched'.
You don't win people to Christ by being one of them, rather by being one with the world then you are the world and really have nothing to win them too.
"To live out," and share the gospel of the kingdom of God will seperate us from the world because we are separated into Him.

Why would teaching our children about God rather than letting the world teach them contrary to God be a contradiction?
Does that not rather affirm our commitment to His ways?
Thanks Wade for the 'push back'. When I look at how Jesus operated and how Paul said he became all things to all men so some would be saved, I don't see 'being one with the world' as things like playing volleyball with an unsaved person. To me, being separate from the world has more to do with putting the same value in the things an unsaved person puts value in. Temporal things like pursuing fame and fortune. It often is establishing relationships with the unsaved, not participating in their sins, that Jesus and the apostles were able to talk to people in their environments and share the truth. Where we separate ourselves is from activities of the world that scripture points to as not becoming a believer. Areas that scripture says those that do them will not inherit the Kingdom of God. We are no longer sinners in that way if we are born again.

The Pharisees in Jesus day pointed their finger at Jesus as being a 'friend of sinners', something they thought was ungodly. But Jesus was more concerned about those He came to save than maintaining a certain opinion of religious people on piety. What we 'win them to' is to Christ and I agree that being in the company of the unsaved should reflect the light we have within. We won't just join them in any open sinful practises as we share our faith.

About schooling, I know many here are in disagreement with my view on isolated schooling. I believe the teaching of the scriptures needs to be done in the home and be such to include where worldly teachings are wrong. I have seen those who have gone through isolated Christian schoolings that never learn how to talk to an unsaved person. Some don't know how to talk to them about anything and are afraid to even say hello. So, in my view, this kind of isolation was not how Jesus and the NT Christians operated. They did have close community life as believers but they reached their entire known world and Christianity spread rapidly. There is something very different if our primary growth in a church is through raising children. If we are the 'quiet in the land' and that means we don't reach out and go where Jesus would go to reach the lost, then we are not NT believers, are we ?

Christianity is not meant to be a life that is free from confrontation. Jesus said if He was hated, we would be also. The Gospel is offensive to those who chose to not believe. Some will just separate themselves from our company while others will be drawn to the light. The Holy Spirit is the source of our boldness and love for the unsaved.

Anyway, push back on these views anytime as we sort through our orthopraxy. Within Anabaptism we have quite a spread of views on what Christ following looks like in some areas.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Sudsy
Posts: 5854
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: Recently attended an EPMC Bible School AMA

Post by Sudsy »

Josh wrote:I recently ran into a situation where someone is planning the mission trips they want to go on based on the schedule of volleyball tournaments 5 months in advance. Without sharing too many personal details, some things are really out of whack about this.

Maybe the Easterns are on to something here.
I think some see these trips as a vacation for themselves more than primarily a trip to build up the Kingdom. When I have heard some of their testimonies on returning, it really puzzles me on what was most important to them. Then there are others who are thrilled to share how they lead someone to the Lord for the first time in their life. Those I eagerly wait to hear.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Once Again
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:38 am
Location: Oklahoma
Affiliation: church of Christ

Re: Recently attended an EPMC Bible School AMA

Post by Once Again »

Sudsy wrote:
Wade wrote:
Sudsy wrote: It is amazing to me how isolated from the world some Christians live. Home schooling and separate church schooling and very little contact in many areas of life when Jesus was the opposite in His practise. Seems His example and the 'come out from among them' scripture are quite a contradiction when put into practise by some. What does that say about the reality of being a new creation and given the ability through the Holy Spirit to 'go out among wolves' and to live out and share the Gospel ? I would like to have that explained to me by those who remove themselves so far from those Jesus came to save. Good thing the early church wasn't like that or we all would be 'the unchurched'.
You don't win people to Christ by being one of them, rather by being one with the world then you are the world and really have nothing to win them too.
"To live out," and share the gospel of the kingdom of God will seperate us from the world because we are separated into Him.

Why would teaching our children about God rather than letting the world teach them contrary to God be a contradiction?
Does that not rather affirm our commitment to His ways?
Thanks Wade for the 'push back'. When I look at how Jesus operated and how Paul said he became all things to all men so some would be saved, I don't see 'being one with the world' as things like playing volleyball with an unsaved person. To me, being separate from the world has more to do with putting the same value in the things an unsaved person puts value in. Temporal things like pursuing fame and fortune. It often is establishing relationships with the unsaved, not participating in their sins, that Jesus and the apostles were able to talk to people in their environments and share the truth. Where we separate ourselves is from activities of the world that scripture points to as not becoming a believer. Areas that scripture says those that do them will not inherit the Kingdom of God. We are no longer sinners in that way if we are born again.

The Pharisees in Jesus day pointed their finger at Jesus as being a 'friend of sinners', something they thought was ungodly. But Jesus was more concerned about those He came to save than maintaining a certain opinion of religious people on piety. What we 'win them to' is to Christ and I agree that being in the company of the unsaved should reflect the light we have within. We won't just join them in any open sinful practises as we share our faith.

About schooling, I know many here are in disagreement with my view on isolated schooling. I believe the teaching of the scriptures needs to be done in the home and be such to include where worldly teachings are wrong. I have seen those who have gone through isolated Christian schoolings that never learn how to talk to an unsaved person. Some don't know how to talk to them about anything and are afraid to even say hello. So, in my view, this kind of isolation was not how Jesus and the NT Christians operated. They did have close community life as believers but they reached their entire known world and Christianity spread rapidly. There is something very different if our primary growth in a church is through raising children. If we are the 'quiet in the land' and that means we don't reach out and go where Jesus would go to reach the lost, then we are not NT believers, are we ?

Christianity is not meant to be a life that is free from confrontation. Jesus said if He was hated, we would be also. The Gospel is offensive to those who chose to not believe. Some will just separate themselves from our company while others will be drawn to the light. The Holy Spirit is the source of our boldness and love for the unsaved.

Anyway, push back on these views anytime as we sort through our orthopraxy. Within Anabaptism we have quite a spread of views on what Christ following looks like in some areas.

You are right that learning to engage with and influence lost people is essential for us as Christians. But all young children and even many teens are not ready to be put into an environment where everything they have been taught at home is undermined and contradicted by the adults in authority over them. Children in public school spend about 8 of their waking hours in that environment. That can be deadly to their spiritual life. To the best of my knowledge, early Christians did not have to contend with anything like the modern American public school system.
0 x
Post Reply