US Thanksgiving

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Valerie
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Re: US Thanksgiving

Post by Valerie »

ken_sylvania wrote:
Robert wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:Anything that starts with baiting and picking a fight probably isn't the best way of approaching Thanksgiving.
Well, feel free to post what you want and stop telling me what I should and should not post.
I guess it's because you're the moderator that you get to tell Boot what he should and should not post??? :?
If we back up, it appears that Boot was suggesting that Robert not post this
Kind of the other way around-
It's not just moderators but most on the forum have shared when they think a particular post shouldn't be posted-
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ken_sylvania
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Re: US Thanksgiving

Post by ken_sylvania »

Valerie wrote:
ken_sylvania wrote:
Robert wrote:
Well, feel free to post what you want and stop telling me what I should and should not post.
I guess it's because you're the moderator that you get to tell Boot what he should and should not post??? :?
If we back up, it appears that Boot was suggesting that Robert not post this
Kind of the other way around-
It's not just moderators but most on the forum have shared when they think a particular post shouldn't be posted-
Exactly! Boot says "Robert, I don't think you should have posted that." and Robert responds "Boot, don't tell me not to post whatever I want." In saying this, Robert is doing the very exact thing he is telling Boot to stop doing, he's telling Boot what not to post.

Now, looking over Robert's post again, I realize it can be parsed two ways. I read it as meaning "Feel free to post what you want; stop telling me what I should and should not post." It could also be read (likely this was how Robert meant it) "Feel free to post what you want; feel free to stop telling me what I should and should not post."
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Robert
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Re: US Thanksgiving

Post by Robert »

ken_sylvania wrote:Now, looking over Robert's post again, I realize it can be parsed two ways. I read it as meaning "Feel free to post what you want; stop telling me what I should and should not post." It could also be read (likely this was how Robert meant it) "Feel free to post what you want; feel free to stop telling me what I should and should not post."
Nope. The first. I grow tired of people telling me what I can and can not say. For 20 years, I had to shut up and not express myself because I might "offend" someone. I am really tired of being shut down by others. I am not in the greatest place these days.

I feel others can respectfully post what they want and I should be allowed to do that same. Telling someone to stop posting something you don't like is a whole lot different then posting what you feel needs to be posted. One is freedom, the other is control. I am not responding well to the attempts to control through passive aggressive ways.
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Hats Off
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Re: US Thanksgiving

Post by Hats Off »

Boot, perhaps you approach everything too much like you approach Bible study. I listened to the video and thought - interesting. Perhaps that is all we were intended to do. I could not study the way you do - I like to read something once or twice and expect to know what is being said. I never search for hidden meaning. So let's all just be thankful for what we have. I sure would like to be able to study the say you do but am also thankful that many things seem obvious to me the first time I read something.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: US Thanksgiving

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Soooo... On thanksgiving-

I enjoyed the video overall. Then again, I enjoy US Thanksgiving in the way we currently celebrate it, much more than I do "Christmas". It's relatively free of commercialism compared to the next holiday, it's more family-oriented, simple, and (in my opinion) genuine. I also like how it's not a (semi)religious holiday being celebrated by millions of sinners who are on a path to hell and Christians alike. :)
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Bootstrap
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Re: US Thanksgiving

Post by Bootstrap »

KingdomBuilder wrote:Then again, I enjoy US Thanksgiving in the way we currently celebrate it, much more than I do "Christmas". It's relatively free of commercialism compared to the next holiday, it's more family-oriented, simple, and (in my opinion) genuine. I also like how it's not a (semi)religious holiday being celebrated by millions of sinners who are on a path to hell and Christians alike. :)
I agree. It's actually one of my favorite holidays for the reasons you give. We celebrate it as a way of giving thanks to God.
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RZehr
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Re: US Thanksgiving

Post by RZehr »

Robert wrote:
Nope. The first. I grow tired of people telling me what I can and can not say. For 20 years, I had to shut up and not express myself because I might "offend" someone. I am really tired of being shut down by others. I am not in the greatest place these days.

I feel others can respectfully post what they want and I should be allowed to do that same. Telling someone to stop posting something you don't like is a whole lot different then posting what you feel needs to be posted. One is freedom, the other is control. I am not responding well to the attempts to control through passive aggressive ways.
I think we all can sympathies with what you are saying.

But aren't you telling someone to stop posting what you don't like? :) What if they want to write a post that says you should be quiet?
Or are you saying that they can tell you to be quiet, and you can tell them no? And can they then say no back to you? :D
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Robert
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Re: US Thanksgiving

Post by Robert »

RZehr wrote:
But aren't you telling someone to stop posting what you don't like? :) What if they want to write a post that says you should be quiet?
Or are you saying that they can tell you to be quiet, and you can tell them no? And can they then say no back to you? :D
I am saying stop telling me what to do. So yea, telling someone to stop telling me to stop. 8-)

I need to ignore a few things too or get out altogether.
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Hats Off
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Re: US Thanksgiving

Post by Hats Off »

We love you, Robert. Don't get out altogether. Some things need to be ignored - but I find that hard to do sometimes.
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Bootstrap
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Re: US Thanksgiving

Post by Bootstrap »

Hats Off, you're right - I do tend to approach science and history the same way I approach the Bible. I don't think Thanksgiving has much to do with accurate history, and I think we should feel free to eat turkey and thank God without worrying about it.

The video says pretty clearly that people should stop connecting Thanksgiving with any sense of mourning, and that's one of the main themes.

I don't think that our celebration of Thanksgiving really has much to do with accurate history, but if we want to talk the history, there are many different stories to tell, and some of them do involve mourning. The Indian village was empty because a plague had wiped out the entire village about five years before the Pilgrims came, after contact with Captain Hunt's expedition, which captured 27 Indians and sold them as slaves in Spain. That was before the Pilgrims came, so it was not their fault, but it's clearly an important part of the story.

Squanto was kidnapped once and taken to England, which is why he spoke English, then managed to return, and was kidnapped a second time and sold as a slave to Spain. When Squanto returned, his people had been wiped out by plague. About 80% of the population of New England died as a result of plagues in the 100 years after contact with Europeans.

As Prager tells it, this is a time to celebrate a conveniently empty village provided for the white people and an Indian who conveniently happens to speak English and can teach the new settlers how to survive. He encourages us to be a little outraged that anyone would see a reason for mourning here.

The original history involves many different stories and lessons, including God's provision for the Pilgrims through Squanto.
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