Selling Blueberries? .. or, maybe not.

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Josh
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Re: Selling Blueberries? .. or, maybe not.

Postby Josh » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:33 am

Bootstrap wrote:Sometimes I do think that "we have different hermeneutics" can be used as a way of shielding ourselves from Scripture, but no sound hermeneutic is going to embrace gay marriage. You can't bend the Greek that far and the cultural arguments are often made up out of whole cloth. I don't think people are going to exterminate us, but they are going to have a harder time understanding us. And we are going to have to figure out how to respond in love, faithfulness, and a deep trust in God.

Politicized sources are calling us to a very different kind of response.


I guess my statement of "we have different hermeneutics" is trying to resolve conflict - simply acknowledging that our two readings are different and really have no way to ever be resolved, and it's better to just talk about our hermeneutics. I would argue that a hermeneutic exists where one can flexibly read whatever they want to into scripture. It's not a good one, but it definitely exists.

I don't think people are going to exterminate us either; I am just trying to point out that people who have a big problem with my belief system and the conservative Anabaptist hermeneutic are asking us a people to stop existing, because who we are and what we are is a product of our hermeneutic.
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Josh
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Re: Selling Blueberries? .. or, maybe not.

Postby Josh » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:34 am

temporal1 wrote:(i sense) many people have chosen to ignore or "auto-off," mainstream media (both "news+entertainment.") for me, this is a first step in attempting to view life through a non-political lens. i stopped following .. 2 years ago? .. when it finally dawned on me it was repetitious garbage. recently, i think of it like riding a stationary bicycle: all that effort, getting nowhere.


In more conservative Mennonite circles it's not normal to read news sources outside of the local newspaper. We don't watch TV news. Less conservative people do listen to the radio.

anyway.
back to blueberries and families. :)


Well, that's "news", and is political news. And whether you like it or not, sources like LifeSiteNews are highly politicised and have such high readership (in the millions) they are part of the mainstream.
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temporal1
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Re: Selling Blueberries? .. or, maybe not.

Postby temporal1 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:56 am

Josh:
temporal1 wrote:(i sense) many people have chosen to ignore or "auto-off," mainstream media (both "news+entertainment.") for me, this is a first step in attempting to view life through a non-political lens. i stopped following .. 2 years ago? .. when it finally dawned on me it was repetitious garbage. recently, i think of it like riding a stationary bicycle: all that effort, getting nowhere.

In more conservative Mennonite circles it's not normal to read news sources outside of the local newspaper. We don't watch TV news. Less conservative people do listen to the radio.
right. i have been learning, and my choices are altered, by reading on this forum.
in a post above, boot referenced mainstream media, my response was essentially to his words.

Josh:
i wrote:
anyway.
back to blueberries and families. :)

Well, that's "news", and is political news. And whether you like it or not, sources like LifeSiteNews are highly politicised and have such high readership (in the millions) they are part of the mainstream.
i'm making an effort to say, "stop politicizing everything." i think it's important for Christians, and others, to refuse to allow all of life to be viewed through "law school teachings." we're late, but, if it's God's will, it's far from impossible to change. this isn't the first time i've suggested such a thing, but, it has not become less important. at this time, Christians are being tempted to seek after government as God .. it's a matter for great caution.

the OP on Michigan blueberries is not a LSN report, neither is the second report from Illinois.
the LSN report is from Canada. they are based in Canada.

i can't agree that LSN is mainstream. :lol:
they aren't even mainstream among Catholics, so far as i know. possibly most of the viewers you number (i have no idea how many) are from countries that are more Catholic than the U.S. - i have no idea. LSN receives lots of criticism, but, i enjoy reading, they cover many topics i see nowhere else, from countries i never see other news.

each makes my point: politicizing personal, family, spiritual matters. there is a need to say, "wait a minute, stop politicizing everything." it's not working out.
Last edited by temporal1 on Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Josh
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Re: Selling Blueberries? .. or, maybe not.

Postby Josh » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:57 am

That's because everything actually is political. Choosing to serve Christ is a highly political act: I traded in my earthly citizenships for citizenship in a heavenly kingdom. I have a new allegiance now.
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Valerie
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Re: Selling Blueberries? .. or, maybe not.

Postby Valerie » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:05 pm

temporal1 wrote:
Valerie wrote: Yes but with him in office, and his feelings that Christians have been persecuted in cases like this, there is more support from the government that a family like this will be able to operate their businesses without compromising their spiritual convictions, or perhaps like some, have had to give up their businesses altogether, or pay huge legal fees in the hopes of keeping their business and not have to do things against their convictions. They have more hope under this administration, than the last for sure.
yes, hijacking personal, family, and spiritual matters for biased politics has become a way of life, Christians were NOT expecting it, so, now are trying to figure out how to respond. we are not "ahead of the curve," and, the answers are not settled. probably the response will have to be different, from different Christians - as, thankfully, we are not one organized political group!
in my view (fwiw) the UNorganized majority is of most importance.

organized minority activists are noisy+effective in human law, but, that doesn't mean they're "right."
Jesus never suggested organizing political factions was His Way. :)

so, in these matters, what is His Way?
we know much is out-of-kilter, we don't know very well how best to respond.


Well, I guess for myself, since you asked- His Way was in that He commissioned the Apostles to take the Gospel to the world, to convert it to "His Way"- and many are called but few are chosen. However, Romans 13 is about the governement upholding Godly laws, not ungodly laws. When the government starts using the law to turn people away from godliness, well- that was not His way, or His intention, is how I look at it.
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Valerie
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Re: Selling Blueberries? .. or, maybe not.

Postby Valerie » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:06 pm

Josh wrote:That's because everything actually is political. Choosing to serve Christ is a highly political act: I traded in my earthly citizenships for citizenship in a heavenly kingdom. I have a new allegiance now.


And Jesus said "Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven" so from the Lord's prayer, His will is for 'both' places, is it not?
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temporal1
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Re: Selling Blueberries? .. or, maybe not.

Postby temporal1 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:12 pm

Josh wrote:That's because everything actually is political. Choosing to serve Christ is a highly political act: I traded in my earthly citizenships for citizenship in a heavenly kingdom. I have a new allegiance now.
i don't disagree, churches are rife with politics.
however, this is not license to "seek after government as God," somehow, it's necessary to discern.

i hope, ordinary people, with ordinary lives, will simply see through the wrongs, and reject them.
it's being done, as it has been done, but these will not receive headlines.
Jesus is not seeking headline-grabbers.
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temporal1
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Re: Selling Blueberries? .. or, maybe not.

Postby temporal1 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:27 pm

Valerie, i read something about this case, i see it as more politicizing family+spiritual matters.
The Parents have No Rights
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=603

Today's problem being .. laws are in place to deliberately restrict children+young people from balanced facts, by force of gov mandate.
In their immaturity, naturally, they will choose from "what they know." Add to that, the elements of attempting to "find themselves," to resist authority, to gain attention from popular+peer opinion, it's a cauldron of problems. This is happening on all topics, not just this one.

This is why ancient cultures value elders. Elders have experienced things, are more likely to ask about what is NOT being said, rather than just accepting empty platitudes as full "Truth."

i recently read a quote,
“Making the decision to have a child - it is momentous.
It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body. ”
― Elizabeth Stone
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ohio jones
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Re: Selling Blueberries? .. or, maybe not.

Postby ohio jones » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:08 pm

temporal1 wrote:(the quote you picked out was not hidden from view; neither did i edit it out.)

I think it might be good to limit material quoted from non-MN sources to a few key paragraphs and a link to the original, rather than pasting an entire article. That would allow us to focus more clearly on the point you're trying to make in referencing the article, rather than getting sidetracked quite so easily by secondary themes.

It would also align with the "fair use" provisions of copyright law. Some forums have strict policies about that -- I'm glad we don't, but would hate to see Robert and MN get in trouble for something that's relatively easy to avoid.
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temporal1
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Re: Selling Blueberries? .. or, maybe not.

Postby temporal1 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:22 pm

ohio jones wrote:
temporal1 wrote:(the quote you picked out was not hidden from view; neither did i edit it out.)

I think it might be good to limit material quoted from non-MN sources to a few key paragraphs and a link to the original, rather than pasting an entire article. That would allow us to focus more clearly on the point you're trying to make in referencing the article, rather than getting sidetracked quite so easily by secondary themes.

It would also align with the "fair use" provisions of copyright law. Some forums have strict policies about that -- I'm glad we don't, but would hate to see Robert and MN get in trouble for something that's relatively easy to avoid.
ok. thanks.
i try to be careful to display author, source. remove ads, requests for signatures, mailing lists, etc.
was not sure about other legalities.

sometimes, there is hesitation to click on links, so, in attempt to present info for discussion, i have copy+pasted like i have here. it also removes my personal bias for picking out what interests me.

i think i understand what you're describing, and will be cautious about it.
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