Josh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:15 pm
I actually don’t care about particular details too much either. My fellowship doesn’t do stuff like cape dresses and never has. However, they do seem to be able to be consistent over long periods of time, particularly in areas like nonresistance. So what is important to me is being part of a group that isn’t “transitional”.
One positive aspect of KFW is that the organisers often seem to be aware of the problems with transitional groups.
It is interesting that transitional groups often don’t recognize it.
I thought of an easy fix; just require any members who transfer in to uphold the church rules of their prior church. So anyone is welcome to join but let’s say they have 3/4 length sleeves. Keep wearing them. After all it shouldn’t be a problem to do so. Doing so would present me with no issues at all, other than being a tad warmer in summer months.
I have deep concern about the level of spirituality of Amish or Wengers who think they should join my church because they want to get a car, and seem to think that is the most important difference.
Josh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:25 pm
I thought of an easy fix; just require any members who transfer in to uphold the church rules of their prior church. So anyone is welcome to join but let’s say they have 3/4 length sleeves. Keep wearing them. After all it shouldn’t be a problem to do so. Doing so would present me with no issues at all, other than being a tad warmer in summer months.
I have deep concern about the level of spirituality of Amish or Wengers who think they should join my church because they want to get a car, and seem to think that is the most important difference.
Your church wouldn’t accept this, I know Pilgrim wouldn’t either.
0 x
Soloist, but I hate singing alone Soloist, but my wife posts with me Soloist, but I believe in community Soloist, but I want God in the pilot seat
Josh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:25 pm
I thought of an easy fix; just require any members who transfer in to uphold the church rules of their prior church. So anyone is welcome to join but let’s say they have 3/4 length sleeves. Keep wearing them. After all it shouldn’t be a problem to do so. Doing so would present me with no issues at all, other than being a tad warmer in summer months.
I have deep concern about the level of spirituality of Amish or Wengers who think they should join my church because they want to get a car, and seem to think that is the most important difference.
Your church wouldn’t accept this, I know Pilgrim wouldn’t either.
Perhaps even a “trial period” of 10 or 20 years or something.
Holdeman revolving-door membership is substantially less of a problem simply due to the lack of an “easy exit”; nobody joins our church who is scheming to leave a few years later. Certain Beachy and Charity type groups basically specialise in this but the leadership seems to have no idea it is happening.
I push the boundaries of how much I attend other churches etc., mostly due to my relatives being in such churches who had non Anabaptist backgrounds and me being a seeker myself. Attending a church that people in our church have left for us strongly discouraged. Personally, I think it’s good to see a little bit of how things are “out there” as people inside our circles can be remarkably naive about just how worldly other churches are the true lack of fellowship we would feel with them.
I still have getting to a service at Bethel Redding (and Cleveland) on my to do list.
I have been to KFW once and won't be returning. A lot of nice people who are on fire, but they can't figure out how to get their fires to burn together. It's actually quite sad.
Marylander wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:09 pm
I have been to KFW once and won't be returning. A lot of nice people who are on fire, but they can't figure out how to get their fires to burn together. It's actually quite sad.
One way to view it is that the speakers and leadership are trying to minister to about half of the attendees.
There are also some “perennials” who bring up the same topics every year. My favourite is the fellow who shows up and tries to promote old school Wesleyan Holiness / second work of grace etc. doctrine. Often when he asks a statement disguised as a question, the guest speaker has no idea what he’s talking about.
Another “interesting” family is headed by a dad who believes fathers have absolute authority in the home (and outside of the home) - no exceptions. He’s so dedicated to this he would be opposed to an adult young person whose family leaves a plain church and stops attending church altogether, going back to a plain church and even wearing a covering. I asked him once if a young person could get born again and converted against their father’s will and he hesitated and never gave me an answer.
If you go, you might end up ministering to such a person yourself.
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:46 am
If you go, you might end up ministering to such a person yourself.
Hmmm, I think I would address the speakers. As I recall the speaker authored several books that I read...and they were overall positive about the group he researched, but when I spoke with him at AIC he gave the present day group a bad rap... dysfunctional, passive fathers, blah, blah, blah. Then another speaker said "don't ever, ever make fun of German singing....even though it kinda sounds like a tractor trying to start on a cold day."
I will pass.
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:46 am
If you go, you might end up ministering to such a person yourself.
Hmmm, I think I would address the speakers. As I recall the speaker authored several books that I read...and they were overall positive about the group he researched, but when I spoke with him at AIC he gave the present day group a bad rap... dysfunctional, passive fathers, blah, blah, blah. Then another speaker said "don't ever, ever make fun of German singing....even though it kinda sounds like a tractor trying to start on a cold day."
I will pass.
Perhaps that would be a good idea.
Gary Miller, for example, frequently writes books about “responsible” technology use aimed at moderate conservatives. Yet moderate conservatives don’t use things like filters etc and generally have major problems with inappropriate technology use. (At the last KFW, my prayer circle had about half the men asking for prayer for a pornography addiction. They also all were from moderate or less conservative groups.)
Meanwhile, reports are that Amish people are reading Gary Miller’s books and feeling like he is showing them it can be OK to embrace smartphones, Internet use, etc.
Perhaps some Amish people should be invited to the prayer circles at KFW mentioned above.
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:46 am
Yet moderate conservatives don’t use things like filters etc and generally have major problems with inappropriate technology use.
That might have changed since you were around such groups. At least KMF's standards mandate use of filters, and encourage, but do not mandate accountability partners. I suspect others are the same, but do not have their standards books.
I have helped a few set up such filters. A derivative of Open DNS seems to work well. Smartphones are a bit more difficult, but Apple Parental Controls is what I use, and have encouraged others to do so as well.
Of course, all filters and accountability systems are only for the "honest." The enforcement mechanism is self reporting, which, again is for the honest.
I am not going to KFW. Too much questionable theology floating around there, too much to do at home. School starts this week.
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:46 am
Yet moderate conservatives don’t use things like filters etc and generally have major problems with inappropriate technology use.
That might have changed since you were around such groups. At least KMF's standards mandate use of filters, and encourage, but do not mandate accountability partners. I suspect others are the same, but do not have their standards books.
KMF is fundamental conservative not moderate conservative.
But in any case most Keystone people I’ve known don’t have any kind of filter on their phone at all. They did tend to have one on their computers.
I have helped a few set up such filters. A derivative of Open DNS seems to work well. Smartphones are a bit more difficult, but Apple Parental Controls is what I use, and have encouraged others to do so as well.
Of course, all filters and accountability systems are only for the "honest." The enforcement mechanism is self reporting, which, again is for the honest.
I am not going to KFW. Too much questionable theology floating around there, too much to do at home. School starts this week.
J.M.
I’ve heard KFW has actually tightened things up a bit. Wish we were going this weekend, but I have too many duties at home.
