Home Schools, Alternatives, post-pandemic

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Soloist
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Re: Home Schools, Alternatives, post-pandemic

Post by Soloist »

Ken wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 2:41 pm Since one of my daughters is a HS senior I spent some time this year on the College Confidential parent forums were folks discuss all things to do with college admissions.

A month or so ago there was a very angry and and disappointed homeschooling mom posting on the forum about how her 4.0 GPA daughter was denied admissions to all of the competitive colleges to which she applied. 2020 was a unique year for college applications because SAT testing was shut down in most states due to Covid and most schools switched to a test-blind admissions policy giving a lot more weight to HS transcripts and GPA.

She was asked: "So, if your daughter is homeschooled, who calculated her grades and GPA?"

"Sometimes she does, and sometimes I do" was the answer.

OK then....

Clearly the colleges to which she was applying were not giving her self-reported transcript and GPA the same weight as those from students from traditional high schools.

Obviously a lot of homeschool kids do go to college. But with standardized testing going away permanently in some states it is going to be harder to distinguish oneself. Especially on standardized common applications, which don't leave a lot of room for explanation. Kids who are off the charts bright and accomplished will always stand out. But it is going to be harder for more average kids to do so.

Its actually pretty easy to get around that problem. I was homeschooled and my mother got my "official" diploma through an empty charter school. Colleges never pick up on that. Although it never really was an issue either way, I transferred to the university with an AAOT.
Let me know if you still feel that way the next time you are someone close to you needs a cardiothoracic surgeon. Or do they teach open heart surgery at that rural Menno school of yours?
I'll point out he was talking spiritual health which seems quite low in the CM's that go to college.
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Ken
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Re: Home Schools, Alternatives, post-pandemic

Post by Ken »

temporal1 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 5:09 pm This is not a thread on college or other post-hs education. :)
No, but about 70% of current high school graduates go on to some form of college education. So how well the various home school and public HS alternatives prepare students for that does seem like a relevant topic.

Obviously elite private prep schools do the best job of that. That is why they exist. And why wealthy parents pay the big bucks to send their kids to them. Public schools are sort of in the middle and their success usually depends largely on how affluent the community is. Wealthy suburban schools tend to do better than poorer rural or inner city schools. Smaller parochial and home school programs are kind of all over the map. Some are super successful, some not so much.
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Josh
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Re: Home Schools, Alternatives, post-pandemic

Post by Josh »

Ken wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 4:58 pm
Josh wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 4:20 pm Given that college is spiritual shipwreck for basically everyone high school age who goes there, I don't consider that much of a great loss.
Let me know if you still feel that way the next time you are someone close to you needs a cardiothoracic surgeon. Or do they teach open heart surgery at that rural Menno primary school of yours?
I would counsel a young person at age 18 not to try to go to college and enrol in something like pre-med. With that said, lots of people go and do this anyway.

There are a lot of people doing things that I end up using directly or indirectly that I would never do myself. For example, I don't believe it's a good idea for a Christian to shoot people. I would advise a young person not to go to a police academy. But I would gladly ring the police and tell them if I found out about an unreported abuse situation.
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Re: Home Schools, Alternatives, post-pandemic

Post by Josh »

Ken wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 5:20 pm
temporal1 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 5:09 pm This is not a thread on college or other post-hs education. :)
No, but about 70% of current high school graduates go on to some form of college education. So how well the various home school and public HS alternatives prepare students for that does seem like a relevant topic.
If 70% of high school graduates use drugs, that doesn't mean that it's a good idea.
Obviously elite private prep schools do the best job of that. That is why they exist. And why wealthy parents pay the big bucks to send their kids to them. Public schools are sort of in the middle and their success usually depends largely on how affluent the community is. Wealthy suburban schools tend to do better than poorer rural or inner city schools. Smaller parochial and home school programs are kind of all over the map. Some are super successful, some not so much.
Hmm. Sounds like these people have priorities that don't match mine. I am not particularly interested in what "wealthy parents" do. Wealthy people do a lot of things that a Christian ought not to do. Regardless of that, a lot of people who aren't college educated end up wealthy anyway.

If you define "success" as "getting into college" or "becoming really rich", then yes, you might start to idolise certain specific school systems. But I'm not sure why that's even a worthwhile conversation.
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Re: Home Schools, Alternatives, post-pandemic

Post by temporal1 »

Last evening, i enjoyed dinner with a group of young mothers with their middle school daughters following a busy+long day’s activities with the girls. It was a fun day and evening for all. The first gathering for my family anything like this in over a year. It was heartening to see the young ones so happy together. :D

The two dining tables, young ones and parents, were close but separate. Different conversations. :D

Several of the young women shared about why they had chosen not to use their teaching certificates: Boredom. :shock:
One said, “i could not teach the same subject 5 times daily, over+over for years.” Others agreed, none contested.

i was interested in this because i’ve wondered if current education problems (esp politicizing all school subjects) isn’t a lot about teachers just being bored with their stated jobs, so they “dress them up” with politics/activism - basically to relieve their own workplace monotony?

This conversation suggests this is a valid question.

Frankly, in many areas, not just public school education, i’m not sure professionalism is emphasized or taught very well.
Part of professionalism IS repitition. Even mind-boggling repitition. The U.S. culture no longer prepares young people for WORK.

The ed system encourages students to excel, to be leaders and directors, bosses, owners, top income earners.
Before they’ve had any job at all. No one is prepared to do grunt work. The daily grind, etc.

No one is prepared to be husband and father, wife and mother, these roles are considered so menial, they aren’t addressed at all. Female students are given continual messages these roles are so meaningless, they must have professional career interests in order to count, at all. (This began when i was a teen. 1960’s.)

Home schools, faith based schools, private schools, all have ways to address these problems and topics.
For one thing, they often require presence+interaction with PARENTS, who model marriage and parenting, who WORK (to pay for education of their children) - and many provide jobs/future jobs, the importance of “plain old work” is demonstrated in real life terms.

They are less likely to have the factory mentality of churning out monotonous subjects year after year. Smaller classes, more personal involvement with students+parents, more motivation and reward for doing the job at hand. The basic job that needs to be done, regardless of entertaining and fulfilling the teachers’ dreams for their careers.

There are options to relay messages of the importance of all jobs in God’s scheme of things. That every job choice can be dedicated to glorify God. The importance and honor of traditional marriage and parenting. The value to society and church.

Now years ago, we had friends, the wife was a registered nurse. Their daughter was in nursing school.
The wife spoke to me in an alarmed way, saying today’s schools are giving students the idea that when they graduate, they should expect to be top leaders in their fields! :shock:

She was an experienced nurse.
She was afraid of this fantasy view, knowing how hard she’d worked over years to get where she was.

Frankly, not long after, our daughter graduated from a large state university, a B.S., no spectacular degree, she enjoyed the party aspect of college; we witnessed her expectation to begin as a CEO or some other top-ranked career. She was FAR from any such thing. (She began working part-time at 16, worked p.t. through college.) We counseled her, with her chosen degree, she would likely need another degree or added certification, to find employment she was interested in.

(Many of today’s college degrees pretty much equate to former value of H.S. diplomas in the job market.) “Everyone gets a degree!” devalues degrees. When i was young, H.S. diplomas were valuable, EVERY college degree was respected.

On the Job training was common. Many companies WANTED to train employees to meet their needs.
Today, certifications are often required before employment. OJT could lead to great opportunities.

Our daughter’s attitude about being a wife+mother? - “o. sure. when i’m 40.” This is common among gov educated females.
Her grandmothers and i helped her with the math on that. :-| It wasn’t easy. “All that glitters” is very seductive.

There are definitely differing expectations and goals about what formal education should be.
The prevailing narrative has been found imperfect. At great expense to students, their families, society.

Thus, this topic about alternatives. :D
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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temporal1
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Re: Home Schools, Alternatives, post-pandemic

Post by temporal1 »

temporal1 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 2:05 pm IFI / A Plea to Exit Public Schools ASAP
https://illinoisfamily.org/education/a- ... ools-asap/

IFI / Cultural Collision: “Comprehensive” Sex Ed Passed in Illinois Senate
https://illinoisfamily.org/homosexualit ... is-senate/

From the OP:
.. In addition to massive overall growth in homeschooling, the survey results also revealed
:arrow: increasing homeschooling rates across all races and ethnicities.

While the homeschooling population has become more demographically diverse over the past decade,
the Census Bureau found that the number of black homeschoolers increased nearly fivefold between spring and fall of 2020,
from 3.3 percent to 16.1 percent. This black homeschooling rate is slightly higher than the approximately 15 percent of black students in the overall K-12 public school population.

The new Census data confirm what previous surveys have shown while also suggesting a tripling of the homeschooling population from its pre-pandemic levels. ..

For those who are accustomed to dismissing alt ed interests as racist+elitist (if not worse) -
the OP points out ALL parents+cultures desire their children’s education to be of quality, and, to reflect their values.

As one who attended very good “mixed cultural” public schools, before “mixed cultural” was a phrase -
i have witnessed this phenomena first-hand, from my earliest years. (The phenomena that parents want their children to respect their family and faith values.)

From what i witness, foreign students in U.S. schools retain their family+faith values in education MUCH BETTER than U.S. legal citizen students in the same schools, who are now systematically seduced into questioning, if not resenting or hating their family and faith values. This change puzzles me. Parents need to be aware, and seek better. Evidently, they are. :D

The U.S. now has a legal+social culture that allows those who are fringe minority groups IN ALL CULTURES to dominate.
This leaves many alienated, across the family+faith board. Thus, choosing alternative education.

When the inmates run the asylum, hopefully, the asylum will be vacated.
The people least capable of running a group or organization are now in charge.
Said especially when the result is total chaos or calamity.

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com › ...
The inmates are running the asylum - Idioms by The Free Dictionary
“Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked
with what sounded good.” :-|
Thomas Sowell

Another report about diverse folks choosing alternatives:

“Students of color disproportionately choosing distance learning.”
“Not every district in Minnesota is keeping track of the demographics of which students are choosing in-person versus distance learning options. But of those that are, many show students of color disproportionately choosing to stay home.”
https://sahanjournal.com/education/stud ... -learning/
.. Still, he’s decided to remain in virtual learning for the rest of the year.

“If I was to go back to in-person school I would only be there for like an hour out of the whole day and we have to wear masks, stay 6 feet apart. That’s going to be torture,” Hadley said. “So, I’d rather just finish out the two months we have online like we’ve been doing it — like, what’s two months going to do? It’s not going to hurt anybody.

Still more than a year away from high school graduation, Hadley wants to go into health care like his mom.
He’s been keeping up with his schoolwork at home, and to him, it doesn’t make sense to disrupt the schedule he’s already worked out.

Others at Minneapolis Public Schools are making similar choices. Hadley is among the more than 40 percent of African American students who’ve chosen to stay home, even when in-person classes resume in mid-April. Native American students are staying home at similar rates. Forty-four percent of Hispanic students and almost 60 percent of Asian students have made the same choice. White students are the most eager to return to in-person learning, with only 34.5 percent opting to stick with distance learning. .. ..

.. “what’s two months going to do? It’s not going to hurt anybody.” .. :shock:
(well, that’s a change.) “when i was in school” we were told missing 1 day was a significant loss. :-|

these reports suggest (to me) LOADS of all kinds of folks are discontent with what happens, and what doesn’t, in current public schools. old complaints, accusations, and arguments are not holding up.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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Josh
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Re: Home Schools, Alternatives, post-pandemic

Post by Josh »

Update: the May 2021 data has come out, and homeschooling is now at 19.5%.

Sources here: https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys ... /data.html
Summary here: https://hslda.org/post/why-will-parents ... year#_edn4

Public school continues to be an increasingly less attractive option.
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Re: Home Schools, Alternatives, post-pandemic

Post by mike »

Josh wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:02 pm Update: the May 2021 data has come out, and homeschooling is now at 19.5%.

Sources here: https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys ... /data.html
Summary here: https://hslda.org/post/why-will-parents ... year#_edn4

Public school continues to be an increasingly less attractive option.
The HSLDA article states:
Between April 2020 and the present, data collected via the US Census Bureau’s Household Pulse Survey (HPS) indicated that an estimated 22–23 million US households included school-age children.[iv] The percent of these households that had at least one homeschooled child (i.e., a child who was taught at home but not enrolled in a public or private school) was 5.4% in spring 2020, 11.1% during fall 2020, and 19.5% by May of 2021. While these Pulse Survey numbers reflected very significant increases in homeschooling, it is difficult to use them to determine the degree to which they will impact public school enrollments at the start of the 2021–22 school year because the HPS surveys have not asked parents why they decided to homeschool their children. Consequently, projections about future enrollments must be based on other sources.
Going from 5.4% to 19.5% is a huge increase in home schooling; however, like they say, it may not tell the whole story about future enrollments. Especially given the unusual circumstances of the past year.

That said, it looks like a nice increase in home schooling is at least a possibility going forward. My guess is that much of that trend could be temporary, kind of like many of the people that were into canning and gardening and processing their own meat for a while there.
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Re: Home Schools, Alternatives, post-pandemic

Post by Josh »

mike wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:09 pm Going from 5.4% to 19.5% is a huge increase in home schooling; however, like they say, it may not tell the whole story about future enrollments. Especially given the unusual circumstances of the past year.
I felt the same way, and thought it would be temporary, but now there is talk of requiring masks or "virtual" instruction again. I can think of at least one family I know that gave up on a nice private school just because of the mask issue. They're going to try homeschooling now.
processing their own meat for a while there.
Hadn't heard of this one. Slaughtering, or just packaging before freezing, etc.?

Slaughterhouses seem to be very booked up. You need to plan way in advance now in many areas (I heard 18 months is common in Kansas), although the small boutique ones where I am still can take short term appointments.
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Re: Home Schools, Alternatives, post-pandemic

Post by mike »

Josh wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:18 pm
mike wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:09 pm Going from 5.4% to 19.5% is a huge increase in home schooling; however, like they say, it may not tell the whole story about future enrollments. Especially given the unusual circumstances of the past year.
I felt the same way, and thought it would be temporary, but now there is talk of requiring masks or "virtual" instruction again. I can think of at least one family I know that gave up on a nice private school just because of the mask issue. They're going to try homeschooling now.
processing their own meat for a while there.
Hadn't heard of this one. Slaughtering, or just packaging before freezing, etc.?

Slaughterhouses seem to be very booked up. You need to plan way in advance now in many areas (I heard 18 months is common in Kansas), although the small boutique ones where I am still can take short term appointments.
I made the meat processing one up; however, I do suspect it is true based on sales of home meat processing supplies. We couldn't even buy home meat grinders and other equipment during the pandemic.

Small butchers are busy around here and are booked up for months. We have at least one new butcher shop in our area. The small independent butchers are doing great.
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