Parenting: "Sweet" vs. "Harsh"

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Peregrino
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Re: Parenting: "Sweet" vs. "Harsh"

Post by Peregrino »

mike wrote: I think that reacting against one error or the other often leads us to the opposite error. I don't want to be so scared of either ditch that I end up in the other.
I hear you, Mike, and I feel the same way. But, thinking out loud here.....

Would you not agree though, that our culture (CA culture) is skewed quite hard towards valuing rigid order and discipline over the individual relationship? Could you foresee that about a generation's worth of focus on love and relationships might be just what the culture needs to swing the center of gravity back towards a better balance between the two?
Last edited by Peregrino on Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Josh
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Re: Parenting: "Sweet" vs. "Harsh"

Post by Josh »

Peregrino wrote:
mike wrote: I think that reacting against one error or the other often leads us to the opposite error. I don't want to be so scared of either ditch that I end up in the other.
I hear you, Mike, and I feel the same way. Would you not agree though, that our culture (CA culture) is skewed quite hard towards valuing rigid order and discipline over the individual relationship? Could you foresee that about a generation's worth of focus on love and relationships might be just what the culture needs to swing the center of gravity back towards a better balance between the two?
It's not a single axis between love and discipline. It's possible to have both. (God treats us this way.)
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mike
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Re: Parenting: "Sweet" vs. "Harsh"

Post by mike »

Peregrino wrote:
mike wrote: I think that reacting against one error or the other often leads us to the opposite error. I don't want to be so scared of either ditch that I end up in the other.
I hear you, Mike, and I feel the same way. But, thinking out loud here.....

Would you not agree though, that our culture (CA culture) is skewed quite hard towards valuing rigid order and discipline over the individual relationship? Could you foresee that about a generation's worth of focus on love and relationships might be just what the culture needs to swing the center of gravity back towards a better balance between the two?
CA culture is so broad that I can only speak from my experience, which I would say probably skews towards valuing love and relationships, more to the unstructured/permissive side. However my experience may not be typical. My parents were Amish till I was 10, and then conservative Mennonite till I was 18. After that, around 10 years as a Charity-affiliated congregation which was headed away from the more rigid order and discipline of the Mennonites. In the last 11 years, I've been part of a small startup conservative Mennonite congregation. Generally, since age 18, I would say I have heard more of the need for love and relationship than I have of the need for order and discipline. I think I have seen some of the results of parents that are afraid of too much order and discipline and am not sure that it is a better way to go in order to swing the pendulum back, if it needs swinging.

Even in very structured conservative Anabaptist communities like Amish and Mennonite, I think that a lot of people hang very much to the side of permissive, loose parenting. They expect the church to keep order and keep their children in line, which is abdicating parental responsibility in my opinion.
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Wade
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Re: Parenting: "Sweet" vs. "Harsh"

Post by Wade »

Where there was tension between a grown son and father in a setting, I had a minister(one with grown children eager to serve the Lord) say very soberly to me to win your children's hearts when they are young because it is not as likely to happen when they are grown.

I have also been told then by a deacon with very nice grown children that it is better not to make a rule than to fail to back it up. As Children are also going to test our consistency. Where if you set a guideline you had better follow it through with correction because if you do not then the person or child the guideline was set for will learn to not trust you...

It seems like when children are very young they have our affection. So what happens if later they don't have it? Maybe a mix of many small mistakes more than a few big ones?

I do like the thoughts shared about being humble and apologizing about mistakes.
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Peregrino
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Re: Parenting: "Sweet" vs. "Harsh"

Post by Peregrino »

mike wrote:
CA culture is so broad that I can only speak from my experience, which I would say probably skews towards valuing love and relationships, more to the unstructured/permissive side. However my experience may not be typical. My parents were Amish till I was 10, and then conservative Mennonite till I was 18. After that, around 10 years as a Charity-affiliated congregation which was headed away from the more rigid order and discipline of the Mennonites. In the last 11 years, I've been part of a small startup conservative Mennonite congregation. Generally, since age 18, I would say I have heard more of the need for love and relationship than I have of the need for order and discipline. I think I have seen some of the results of parents that are afraid of too much order and discipline and am not sure that it is a better way to go in order to swing the pendulum back, if it needs swinging.

Even in very structured conservative Anabaptist communities like Amish and Mennonite, I think that a lot of people hang very much to the side of permissive, loose parenting. They expect the church to keep order and keep their children in line, which is abdicating parental responsibility in my opinion.
Interesting to hear your perspective on this. Our local experience seems to have colored our view of the culture as a whole in opposite ways.

I believe that the issue of fathers, especially, being emotionally absent from their children's lives is a huge problem in today's culture, CA and American alike. I feel that if we fathers can somehow gain our children's hearts and keep them as they grow, they can be better equipped to find their way in the world than if we just enforce our rules without a real relationship with them. Again, I'm not sure how this is done but by the grace of God, I am hoping we can find our way through this and equip young men and women to make a difference in this world by spreading the Good News that the King of heaven is good, that He loves us and is for us, not against us.
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mike
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Re: Parenting: "Sweet" vs. "Harsh"

Post by mike »

Peregrino wrote:I believe that the issue of fathers, especially, being emotionally absent from their children's lives is a huge problem in today's culture, CA and American alike. I feel that if we fathers can somehow gain our children's hearts and keep them as they grow, they can be better equipped to find their way in the world than if we just enforce our rules without a real relationship with them. Again, I'm not sure how this is done but by the grace of God, I am hoping we can find our way through this and equip young men and women to make a difference in this world by spreading the Good News that the King of heaven is good, that He loves us and is for us, not against us.
Yes -- amen to that.
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TeleBodyofChrist
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Re: Parenting: "Sweet" vs. "Harsh"

Post by TeleBodyofChrist »

There are a lot of good points here.

Like some have already mentioned there is a medium, and we try the best to find it. I think as adults it is easy to forget what it was like at our children's age, and expect things from them we shouldn't.

Loving your children is wanting them to grow up to follow Christ of their own volition, and not because you do. I also want them to have the best chance of being well rounded people. I have rules because I love them and do not want them hurt unnecessarily. People often think having rules means you do not love and that is not true. I think not protecting and letting anything happen to your child does not show love.

People want to do all kinds of things even if it will hurt them. Protecting them from that is not harsh.

Another way I look at it is, I am showing them how to live. They literally know nothing about the world. It is my job to show them the best way to navigate it.

As for the differences in showing love between a father and mother. I find that my Husband is emotionally invested in the children. He plays with them and spends time with all of us. The stereotype is that the man is emotionally distant and that is not always true. I am emotionally distant, but having children has help me show affection more than I would have before.

My sons also show affection to each other and love babies. My oldest says that he wants to have 1000 babies. lol. My Husband and I do not try to kill this trait in our children. I am perfectly aware some would as they have certain expectations for men vs. women. Jesus loved the little children and that is who I want them to follow; who I follow.
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Dan Z
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Re: Parenting: "Sweet" vs. "Harsh"

Post by Dan Z »

One of the best simple summaries of parenting styles I have ever seen looks at parenting by two main measures:

Control (Demanding vs Undemanding) and Support (encouraging vs unsupportive).

About 50 years ago Diana Baumrind developed a Parenting Style model based on these two continua, saying that all parents fall on a line between supportive - unsupportive on the one hand, and demanding - undemanding on the other. With those measures, she came up with the following matrix that identifies four main types of parenting styles:
  • Authoritarian ("Harsh")
    Permissive ("Sweet")
    Authoritative (High in both support and control)
    Rejecting/Neglecting (Passive)
There has been a lot of research on the outcomes related to the four types - with Authoritative being by far the best approach as far as child development is concerned - including children adopting their parent's faith I would add.

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Josh
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Re: Parenting: "Sweet" vs. "Harsh"

Post by Josh »

That's the same quadrant taught at SMBI. I think it reflects biblical values and teaching, and is of importance to anyone who needs to navigate how to handle authority, control, and being loving at the same time.
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