https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 257423002/
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nation ... story.html
There were a couple of news stories in my feed today about children being accidentally killed. The first one has the mother being charged for neglect. The second is still under investigation.
What constitutes parental neglect? Is neglect something that parents can always fully avoid? I am aware of a foster mother in a west coast state who was jailed and banned from the foster system because a foster child was accidentally hurt twice in a certain time period, once breaking his arm by falling from a bunk bed, and another time something more minor. This mother had no criminal record or any inkling of child abuse, but yet this neglect was considered criminal. What kind of supervision can reasonably be expected of a parent? Must children be on a leash all hours of the day?
I think, but don't have any data to back this up, that we are seeing more parents being charged for neglect than ever before. At the same time there are ideas coming from authors like Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt in their book The Coddling of the American Mind to the effect that children are being protected far too much in our society. One example of what they may advocate is letting children walk to school on their own, saying we have been far too worried about safety.
What is reasonable here? What should these accidents teach parents? Should parents be charged with crimes for not being aware that their child wandered into danger?
Child injury or death, parent charged?
Child injury or death, parent charged?
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?
That foster mother lives in our community. I believe the whole thing was completely bogus. And this county is desperate for foster parents. She was completely innocent. Oddly enough, I think it was the prosecutor instead of the DHS that was after her. I believe the DHS sided with her, which is completely unexpected given their typical fervor against religious foster parents. I think the judge was sympathetic too, but she ended up taking a plea deal. As a Christian I have zero trust in the Oregon and Washington DHS departments when it comes to these issues. They are staffed with way too many liberal minded, young, non-parents and infested with LGBTQ ideology.
My children walk to school about a mile across the fields every day.
My children walk to school about a mile across the fields every day.
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Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?
RZehr wrote:That foster mother lives in our community. I believe the whole thing was completely bogus. And this county is desperate for foster parents. She was completely innocent. Oddly enough, I think it was the prosecutor instead of the DHS that was after her. I believe the DHS sided with her, which is completely unexpected given their typical fervor against religious foster parents. I think the judge was sympathetic too, but she ended up taking a plea deal.
Interesting. If I remember correctly, her sister used to work for my dad maybe 30 years ago. I believe good things can come from such an ordeal but I would not wish it on anyone. As Ken Miller said about his prison experience, he wouldn't trade what he learned for a million dollars but also would not give a nickel for it.
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?
That doesn't surprise me.RZehr wrote:I think God did use her in a wonderful way in jail.
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?
RZehr, it isn't only in your area where that is the case. What you describe, would I think, describe our province as well. When we hear of accidental deaths of children, it brings fear along with the other more natural responses. Do the parents really need to face a criminal investigation in addition to losing a child? The fact that there was a fence involved in the Indiana situation will surely be helpful.
Today, it really behoves parents to be extra careful. We have been doing away with yard fences - they need to be replaced. A farmer was recently charged when his son fell out of a skid steer loader bucket and was killed. I think we all realize that is no place for a child - he knew better but allowed the child to ride along regardless. I believe he received a suspended sentence with probation. He was fortunate to have a sympathetic judge but that won't always be the case. Parents need to learn from these deaths; we may consider them to be acts of God, but the authorities don't think that way.
Today, it really behoves parents to be extra careful. We have been doing away with yard fences - they need to be replaced. A farmer was recently charged when his son fell out of a skid steer loader bucket and was killed. I think we all realize that is no place for a child - he knew better but allowed the child to ride along regardless. I believe he received a suspended sentence with probation. He was fortunate to have a sympathetic judge but that won't always be the case. Parents need to learn from these deaths; we may consider them to be acts of God, but the authorities don't think that way.
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PeterG
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Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?
They are not acts of God. They are the tragic consequences of human choices (Adam and Eve's, if no others).Hats Off wrote:We may consider them to be acts of God
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"It is a weird" —Ken
Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?
I don't like calling a human-caused tragedy an act of God, because God is not the source of evil. I don't even like calling non-human-caused disasters such as sickness or storms Acts of God either, for the same reason.PeterG wrote:They are not acts of God. They are the tragic consequences of human choices (Adam and Eve's, if no others).Hats Off wrote:We may consider them to be acts of God
However, God does allow both human-caused and non-human-caused tragedies to happen, even though he could (and sometimes may) prevent them from happening. And so in philosophical terms, if God could prevent something from happening but does not, He bears at least that responsibility. Atheists use this argument all the time to show that God is malevolent and fickle.
I have been in many discussions over the years with friends and with my wife about whether we can say that God causes things like this. I don't like saying so. But I am comfortable with saying that God allows tragedies, and I have come to the conclusion that there isn't much difference philosophically. I think the reason that many people, including many plain people, call these kinds of things acts of God is because it helps them to deal with grief in knowing that God is sovereign and that he can use even bad things for good.
My guess is that your strong objection has to do with a failure to take into account human choices and their logical consequences, thus failing to take adequate responsibility for the tragedy and making changes that would decrease the chance of it happening again. Being careless about safety and then if something happens, just call it an act of God. Do I read you correctly?
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
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joshuabgood
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Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?
Calling these things acts of God or describing it as "it must have been there time to die" is prevalent among plain, especially in my experience, Amish influenced people. Such a fatalism empowers the cultural Germanic stoicism.
It's a cruel God though if he causes children to be run over by tractor trailers. Surely, reasonable people would agree. No. God didn't do it. And it wasn't their time. They died prematurely. And they didn't die for a reason. It was a tragic accident. As hard as those things/truths are...
Human error and the results of the imperfect cursed world we live in are causes. It's because of that that we mourn (though not as those that have no hope). And where appropriate we put fences on the edge of the cliff rather than ambulances in the valley. The airline industry is a good example of this.
It's a cruel God though if he causes children to be run over by tractor trailers. Surely, reasonable people would agree. No. God didn't do it. And it wasn't their time. They died prematurely. And they didn't die for a reason. It was a tragic accident. As hard as those things/truths are...
Human error and the results of the imperfect cursed world we live in are causes. It's because of that that we mourn (though not as those that have no hope). And where appropriate we put fences on the edge of the cliff rather than ambulances in the valley. The airline industry is a good example of this.
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?
How do you square this position with John 9:3?joshuabgood wrote: It's a cruel God though if he causes children to be run over by tractor trailers. Surely, reasonable people would agree. No. God didn't do it. And it wasn't their time. They died prematurely. And they didn't die for a reason. It was a tragic accident. As hard as those things/truths are...
[bible]John 9,3[/bible]
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