Public libraries. 21st Century saloons?

[ken_sylvania]

I agree. And a good way to reduce our fossil fuel use and environmental impact is to start with growing and consuming food closer to home. Of course, a few specialty items need to be shipped… like vanilla beans. Or grass seed for Japanese people.

That means there will need to be fields, farms, dairies, and timber harvesting where folks live, instead of it being far away and “someone else’s problem”.

Gotta ship in the avocados and rice milk too....

Wouldn’t it better to just ship the rice cows?

Oh no, they might make rice cow dirt and it might stink. Can't have that in a residential area.

[Josh]

If we get brown rice cows, do we get chocolate rice milk?

(If you want to see environmental devastation… look into how almonds are grown… which is mostly for the “almond milk” industry, marketed as somehow being “environmentally better” than evil dairies.)

[RZehr]

Now we will be shipping in synthetic, laboratory produced mint flavoring from China to use in Colgates toothpaste and Wriggly chewing gum. Instead of Oregon farming natural peppermint and distilling the mint oil as we have for 40 years.

Here is a farm that is for sale.

They grew mint, hay, grass seed, and I think potatoes and carrot seed and other vegetable seed in the past. They have a mint oil distillery on the farm too.

Due to Colgate canceling mint contracts, and environmentalist forcing more irrigation water to be diverted into to river for endangered frogs, which makes growing other crops unprofitable, this 3rd generation farming family is done. I know them. The second gen is alive and retired. The 3rd gen is getting out of farming and getting a different career.

https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/adl9e57p

And:

https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/38cff3ag

Here you can buy their equipment:

https://bid.pickettauctions.com/auction ... ver-oregon
Auctioneer's Note:

Cloud Farms’ founding principal, Everett Cloud, and family have been farming in Jefferson County since 1948. They have been pillars of the Culver community since 1962 raising crops and kids. Mike, Jim, and Jeff Cloud have carried on the tradition. This line of machinery of both conventional and specialized equipment has been meticulously maintained with an eye for detail. Furthermore, all rolling stock and many implements have been shedded with most items being one owner. Enjoy the auction!

[Verity]

There are people out there like you describe, I do not doubt. Thank God it is not the case every where. I have been to many libraries- public, college, private. I have not had negative experiences while alone or with my children. As a family we use the library as training ground- teaching our children how to discern between good and bad, learning how to research and access information in a safe sensible way, and enjoying the wealth of books and materials that are available. Librarians often became personal friends.

I suspect you live in a politically conservative area and your libraries are thus dominated by that (as is where I live). The experience in large cities may indeed be very different.

I have had the experience of people acting out sexually and showing porn at conservative Mennonite churches. Not all, thank God, but it does happen. When I go to a public place (even a library), I expect to find the world, the flesh and the devil. I expect better in the house of God. Based on a few experiences at church, which did affect my children, would it be right for me to label EPMC churches as saloons or perverted places???

I am thankful for public libraries.

If EPMC churches lend official institutional support to promoting pornography to children, then they are worse than saloons and are perverted places.

Liberal for a decade, conservative for the rest. Yes, that does indeed play a part. Although I have seen more questionable material in the most rural library than I saw in all the rest combined. Demand plays a part. We are welcome to request as many new books as we wish to at that library.

Josh, I did not say these things happened at church with official support. I would appreciate you refraining from misconstruing things.

[ken_sylvania]

Josh, I did not say these things happened at church with official support. I would appreciate you refraining from misconstruing things.

I don't read Josh's comment as implying that you said the church supported those things.

I read your previous comment as suggesting that if it's not fair to call EPMC a saloon just because you saw smut there, then it's not fair to call public libraries saloons just because some of them promote wickedness.
Josh is simply pointing out that the difference between the two scenarios is that what you saw at that church was against policy, while the wickedness promoted in some libraries is directly in line with official policy.

[Josh]

As far as I know, EPMC officially opposes such things but they also aren’t very consistent when it comes to what they officially say they do and what actually happens.

Our concern with libraries is them officially having obscene books available for children. That seems different from a few bad books sneaking again, against official policy.

[Verity]

Thank you, Ken_sylvania and Josh.

The libraries in question are public places, funded by the state. We would expect them to operate under a different set of values than what we as Christians/the church would. Why do we act so shocked and disgusted when the world reveals its values? Jesus did not do this, did He? He had strong words for those who called themselves sons of God but lived by the values of the world. He put forth effort to cleanse the temple and rebuke hypocrisy. But where do we see Him bemoaning the corruption of society around Him?

When there is corruption in the church -among us- we can and must do something about it. How do we best foster change in the world around us?

Do we believe in two separate kingdoms?

[Josh]

Thank you, Ken_sylvania and Josh.

The libraries in question are public places, funded by the state. We would expect them to operate under a different set of values than what we as Christians/the church would. Why do we act so shocked and disgusted when the world reveals its values? Jesus did not do this, did He? He had strong words for those who called themselves sons of God but lived by the values of the world. He put forth effort to cleanse the temple and rebuke hypocrisy. But where do we see Him bemoaning the corruption of society around Him?

When there is corruption in the church -among us- we can and must do something about it. How do we best foster change in the world around us?

Do we believe in two separate kingdoms?

Jesus’ words were that it would be better for a millstone to be hung around the neck of someone who tries to corrupt a child and to be tossed into the sea. His words.

Now, our church and school has its own library, and we have our own schools too. But that doesn’t mean I won’t speak against things like pushing pornographic, obscene material on children, or exposing them to sexual predators including drag queens.

Jesus did speak about the corruption of rulers like Herod, and indeed he ended up dying and being eaten by worms due to his wickedness. There is no reason we cannot speak prophetically against the evil around us.

[ken_sylvania]

Thank you, Ken_sylvania and Josh.

The libraries in question are public places, funded by the state. We would expect them to operate under a different set of values than what we as Christians/the church would. Why do we act so shocked and disgusted when the world reveals its values? Jesus did not do this, did He? He had strong words for those who called themselves sons of God but lived by the values of the world. He put forth effort to cleanse the temple and rebuke hypocrisy. But where do we see Him bemoaning the corruption of society around Him?

When there is corruption in the church -among us- we can and must do something about it. How do we best foster change in the world around us?

Do we believe in two separate kingdoms?

Yes, we expect them to operate under a different set of values, at least to a point. But if we live in a community were a large percentage of the population is nominally Christian we've been used to seeing them demonstrate certain Christian values. It actually is somewhat shocking how quickly some of those values have been rejected.

Jesus actually did deplore the wickedness and lack of repentance in the towns where he ministered.

Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

[RZehr]

I looked at my property tax bill, and see that I pay about $200 per year that goes to the library.