Public libraries. 21st Century saloons?

[RZehr]

It also applies to the small locally owned and operated 100 year old C&D Lumber Co., that I posted about from this weekend. About 100 jobs gone. You don’t like consolidation? Don’t drive out the smaller guys. You want to clear the competition for Weyerhaeuser? Keep adding regulations, and throwing up barriers to entry.

But none of this answers my question to you about their well used strategy. Are you aware of how frequently the lawfare has been employed by environmentalists?

Yes, but look at what the article (in the Oregonian) says about why they are closing. They simply can't compete. The industry has changed and they haven't. Same as how a small coal mine in Kentucky can't compete against the enormous mountain top removal operations in Wyoming. Nothing was ever going to make them profitable because they simply can't afford to compete for logs on the open market with the big operators. Reducing environmental regulations isn't going to change that equation.

And consolidation? That's been a bipartisan thing. It was the Trump Administration that approved the consolidation of Weyerhaeuser and Plum Creek which made things worse for C&C but that part of Douglas County voted for Trump by a 50-point margin. Shug. Neither party has done much for rural America or done anything about consolidation.

C&D blamed the pending closure in Riddle on “the unprecedented challenges facing the industry today,” including fluctuating market prices, rising operating costs and timber shortages. Johnson said some of C&D’s lumber is fetching the same price it did 20 years ago even as all other costs have soared.

“Within the last few months, we figured we would need to purchase Douglas fir logs at nearly half of the going market price in order to sell our lumber and break even. This clearly isn’t sustainable,” Johnson said.

Douglas County needs to rethink it's economic base and diversify. Shutting down their libraries isn't going to help them do that. Maybe nothing will. I can remember going down to play HS football games back in the early 1980s. It was kind of a ragged and hostile place even back then.

And here is the next part of the article.

“

Reduced output from public forestland, increased consumption by larger wood products manufacturers and the effects of the 2021 Private Forest Accord are squeezing smaller mills like C&D, according to Johnson.

You don’t seem to want to understand that new regulations 1. May contribute to price fluctuations, 2. If you are getting logs under more regulation, it may contribute to overhead, 3. May contribute to timber shortage.

But what you really seem to want to ignore (but I know you in fact do understand), is how regulations fall disproportionately heavy on smaller companies. Which again, is something that is specifically mentioned in the sequential paragraph that I provided here.

Adding environmental regulations help clear out small operators and put the economic thumb heavily in favor of huge multinational corporations.

Why has lumber prices stayed the same, while timber has increased? Because we are importing lumber from deregulated countries, instead of milling it. We can’t compete. All while logging regulations drive up the cost of getting the logs from the forests.

[Ken]

And here is the next part of the article.

“

Reduced output from public forestland, increased consumption by larger wood products manufacturers and the effects of the 2021 Private Forest Accord are squeezing smaller mills like C&D, according to Johnson.

You don’t seem to want to understand that new regulations 1. May contribute to price fluctuations, 2. If you are getting logs under more regulation, it may contribute to overhead, 3. May contribute to timber shortage.

But what you really seem to want to ignore (but I know you in fact do understand), is how regulations fall disproportionately heavy on smaller companies. Which again, is something that is specifically mentioned in the sequential paragraph that I provided here.

Adding environmental regulations help clear out small operators and put the economic thumb heavily in favor of huge multinational corporations.

Why has lumber prices stayed the same, while timber has increased? Because we are importing lumber from deregulated countries, instead of milling it. We can’t compete. All while logging regulations drive up the cost of getting the logs from the forests.

All of those add up to increased costs.

Logging does actually need regulation. I live in what are essentially the foothills of the Gifford Pinchot national forest and spend a lot of time up there biking, hiking, and skiing. Absent environmental standards the entire place would be one giant clear cut through unstable hillsides, salmon streams, and all kinds of important habitats for a wide variety of species. Salmon would go extinct, barren hillsides would slide into streams and rivers, flooding would be made enormously worse, and our water supply (which is from mountain watersheds and snowpack) would be enormously degraded. We know all of this with absolute certainty because it has all happened everywhere logging has been unregulated.

The 2021 Private Forest Accord was actually a good faith effort by all of the stakeholders to come to some consensus as to how forests should be managed and then implement that consensus into regulations. How would you have done things differently? Just turn Oregon forests over to the massive out-of-state private equity firms that actually own the largest timber companies and let them run wild for the short-term maximization of profit?

That wouldn't have brought back jobs or libraries either.

[RZehr]

And here is the next part of the article.

“

Reduced output from public forestland, increased consumption by larger wood products manufacturers and the effects of the 2021 Private Forest Accord are squeezing smaller mills like C&D, according to Johnson.

You don’t seem to want to understand that new regulations 1. May contribute to price fluctuations, 2. If you are getting logs under more regulation, it may contribute to overhead, 3. May contribute to timber shortage.

But what you really seem to want to ignore (but I know you in fact do understand), is how regulations fall disproportionately heavy on smaller companies. Which again, is something that is specifically mentioned in the sequential paragraph that I provided here.

Adding environmental regulations help clear out small operators and put the economic thumb heavily in favor of huge multinational corporations.

Why has lumber prices stayed the same, while timber has increased? Because we are importing lumber from deregulated countries, instead of milling it. We can’t compete. All while logging regulations drive up the cost of getting the logs from the forests.

All of those add up to increased costs.

Logging does actually need regulation. I live in what are essentially the foothills of the Gifford Pinchot national forest and spend a lot of time up there biking, hiking, and skiing. Absent environmental standards the entire place would be one giant clear cut through unstable hillsides, salmon streams, and all kinds of important habitats for a wide variety of species. Salmon would go extinct, barren hillsides would slide into streams and rivers, flooding would be made enormously worse, and our water supply (which is from mountain watersheds and snowpack) would be enormously degraded. We know all of this with absolute certainty because it has all happened everywhere logging has been unregulated.

The 2021 Private Forest Accord was actually a good faith effort by all of the stakeholders to come to some consensus as to how forests should be managed and then implement that consensus into regulations. How would you have done things differently? Just turn Oregon forests over to the massive out-of-state private equity firms that actually own the largest timber companies and let them run wild for the short-term maximization of profit?

That wouldn't have brought back jobs or libraries either.

These industries do need some regulation.

One more thing about the 2021 PFA - there is no way that industry would have had sudden epiphany about the need for that in their own. So I take small issues with framing it as simply a “good faith effort by all of the stakeholders to come to some consensus as to how forests should be managed and then implement that consensus into regulations.” It was a bitterly fought over issue, that ended in the 2021 PFA, because the industry decided it was better off to settle, than to fight and risk losing, and if it lost, it would possibly end up with an even worse deal. It’s just a business calculation. And the big boys, they have international operations. And the big boys voice is louder at the negotiating table, on the side of the industry. What they say will probably go, not what that smaller mills want. So the silver lining for them is that the regulations will fall heaviest on their smaller competitors.

This is the way these environmentalist bring industry to its knees. Because there is no risk for the environmental if they lose. There is only risk for industry if they lose. I’ve seen this same thing play out elsewhere, I’ve seen the settlements at great cost, and I’ve seen worse when they’ve lost.

Maybe if legislators weren’t so spineless or captured by lobbyists, they could figure out regulations themselves instead of delinquently ceding their duties to the courts and hostile parties.

[Josh]

In any event, the spotted owl wasn't the main reason why timber dollars declined in Oregon. The big timber companies were also shipping raw logs overseas by the millions from Coos Bay instead of having them processed in local sawmills. Small local sawmills also failed to adapt to newer wood products that the construction industry now uses. And productivity gains means less loggers and mill workers are needed to process the same amount of logs. Like I said, no different from farming, mining, or fishing.

Or librarians. Perhaps we don’t need as many librarians anymore. Perhaps libraries have failed to adapt to newer changing times.

[Ken]

In any event, the spotted owl wasn't the main reason why timber dollars declined in Oregon. The big timber companies were also shipping raw logs overseas by the millions from Coos Bay instead of having them processed in local sawmills. Small local sawmills also failed to adapt to newer wood products that the construction industry now uses. And productivity gains means less loggers and mill workers are needed to process the same amount of logs. Like I said, no different from farming, mining, or fishing.

Or librarians. Perhaps we don’t need as many librarians anymore. Perhaps libraries have failed to adapt to newer changing times.

[Josh]

If libraries are so necessary, perhaps they can find a way to turn a profit instead of demanding to feed at the public trough.

The Amish sometimes organise their own private libraries and contribute a small fee to be a member (typically just a few dollars). At our churches and schools, we have a library.

Myself/my business partners are actually frequent attendees at libraries: going to library sales where books are being liquidated by the dumpster load. I don’t think libraries throwing out tonnes of books need even more funding. Maybe they should get with the times and replace librarians with automation and more modern technology, right? Just like those out of date sawmills?

[Ken]

If libraries are so necessary, perhaps they can find a way to turn a profit instead of demanding to feed at the public trough.

The Amish sometimes organise their own private libraries and contribute a small fee to be a member (typically just a few dollars). At our churches and schools, we have a library.

Myself/my business partners are actually frequent attendees at libraries: going to library sales where books are being liquidated by the dumpster load. I don’t think libraries throwing out tonnes of books need even more funding. Maybe they should get with the times and replace librarians with automation and more modern technology, right? Just like those out of date sawmills?

It's a question of values.

If your community wants to burn down its libraries, go for it.

I'm thankful to live in a community that has other values. Even though I don't actually use them that much, I have plenty of students who make good use of our public libraries and for that reason alone it is worth it.

[RZehr]

The two nearest libraries that we go to are both getting brand new buildings. Both are spending big bucks for new ones. Redmond is scheduled to open their new building Fall of 2024. Madras library, which is about a block from my office, is at the architect step.

I don’t know where the money is coming from.

[Ken]

The two nearest libraries that we go to are both getting brand new buildings. Both are spending big bucks for new ones. Redmond is scheduled to open their new building Fall of 2024. Madras library, which is about a block from my office, is at the architect step.

I don’t know where the money is coming from.

Of course you know where the money is coming from. Local tax dollars, supplemented perhaps by state and federal grants.

[RZehr]

The two nearest libraries that we go to are both getting brand new buildings. Both are spending big bucks for new ones. Redmond is scheduled to open their new building Fall of 2024. Madras library, which is about a block from my office, is at the architect step.

I don’t know where the money is coming from.

Of course you know where the money is coming from. Local tax dollars, supplemented perhaps by state and federal grants.

I don’t know specifically where it is coming from. I read something about fundraising and grants. And when a country is so upside down financially as this one is, I don’t know where there is money to be wasted like this. Not that libraries are a waste, but the two we had seemed to be in very good condition.