Swim lessons, gun safety instructions ..

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temporal1
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Swim lessons, gun safety instructions ..

Post by temporal1 »

Sister thread to Buckeymatt2’s thread -
PJ Media article:
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1082

it would be hard for anyone to dislike guns/weapons more than i. :-|
my father+brothers hunted birds+small animals. i thought animals were so beautiful.
i looked at fish about the same way .. to clarify, they fished with poles, not guns.

when i was young, a basket case. i get the stirred emotions. :(
i see the politics. :evil:
it gets real political when those promoting for-profit-corporate-abortion cry about guns, “killing our babies.” gun deaths being a small fraction of the abortion number.

however.
as an adult, i realize, guns exist. bad things happen.
most guns, by far, never harm any human, most do not harm animals, or fish.

this last year, in my general area, at least 2 young children were killed by children, playing with guns.
my state is very restrictive with gun ownership. very high with illegal gun violence+fatalities .. it’s NOT staying in Chicago. violent crime is up in downstate small towns. it’s unnerving.

truth is, i suspect politicians are quietly spreading Chicago’s gun violence to downstate - in a wildly feeble attempt to improve Chicago’s horrible statistics.

that’s just exactly how much credit i give Chicago lawmakers sitting in detached safe little office cubicles all their lives for problem-solving: no fixing! - just adjust statistics here+there, give yourselves another raise.

i digress.

this year, i’m thinking, one improvement might result by offering gun safety instruction to children, as young as possible. in the same way swim classes are offered.

GUNS EXIST. just as open bodies of water exist.
the best way to prevent drownings is to teach swimming, and water safety.

let’s get over the shock. truth is, children may come across a gun about anywhere -
when visiting friends. but, anywhere. guns have mistakenly been left in washrooms!
children have picked up guns left in yards.

ideally, swimming, and, gun safety, can be taught in homes. not everyone has the ability.
many children have reinforcement of both home lessons and formal lessons.

seen, or unseen, there are guns around.

some criminals are always armed.
they shop, go to banks, drive on the same byways as everyone else. they aren’t “always” firing their weapons. but, they carry them.

when i was in Washington, we occasionally saw open carry pistols, rifles, away from the central urban areas. it was a non-issue. lots of men/women legally carry guns of different description, concealed, or not.

when i was young, i was told, some women carried hatpins for self defense. it was fearful talk.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/h ... ts-fashion

instead of panic+hysteria, which is highly politicized, children should be prepared, in the event they come across a firearm, regardless of location or situation. ordinary people can do that much to prevent gun accidents, just as we prevent drownings.

thoughts?
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Re: Swim lessons, gun safety instructions ..

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:this year, i’m thinking, one improvement might result by offering gun safety instruction to children, as young as possible. in the same way swim classes are offered.

GUNS EXIST. just as open bodies of water exist.
the best way to prevent drownings is to teach swimming, and water safety.
Swim lessons teach children to swim. I don't think we need to teach all children to use guns, but we do need to teach children how to live in a world with guns. I had gun safety as part of our health class when I was in high school in the 1970s. They told us how to lock and secure your weapons, to store them unloaded, never to point a gun at someone in jest, never shoot at something you cannot see clearly, and what to do if you saw a weapon unattended (find an adult authority, do not pick it up, especially if you are not experienced with weapons). I think everyone should know these basics.

In the 1970s, the NRA was mostly about hunting, not self-defense, and they also told us where to sign up for courses taught by the NRA and told us about marksmanship courses offered by the JROTC. There was a lot of hunting where I grew up, dogs and cows and a few people had been shot, and the emphasis was that anyone who is going to use a gun should really know what they are doing. I very much respect hunters, and I think this was good advice. The JROTC part wasn't up my ally, I don't want schools to militarize our youth.

My religious beliefs would not allow me to use a gun for self-defense or for defending others. But if people are going to buy guns for this purpose, I would rather see people receive serious training first, and I would want that training to emphasize ways to deescalate situations so that it never comes to firing a weapon. If you shoot someone, you have just changed your life permanently and in pretty awful ways, you want to avoid that if at all possible. If I were king of the world, and I am not, guns would be treated like cars, they would be licensed and registered, and you could lose your license for recklessness. Proper training would be the most important part of getting a license.

But all of us live in a world where we may encounter people with guns, who may be acting suspiciously. What should we be taught about that situation?
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temporal1
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Re: Swim lessons, gun safety instructions ..

Post by temporal1 »

swim lessons teach “how to swim.”
some water safety lessons are taught along with those lessons.
there are lots of good tips, even for when not going into the water. i’m happy to say.

gun safety instructions are similar.
there is no requirement to use a gun, just because you understand how to safely be around them -
including how to safely be around TOY guns! misuse of toy guns, and, unloaded guns, have inadvertantly led to many injuries and deaths.

i did not suggest children be taught to shoot guns.
i’m not wholesale against it.
either way, gun safety instructions can be life+death, as are water safety/swim instructions.

i would hope gun safety instructions would include advice on what to do in the event of encountering a suspicious situation.

i have had a couple of “uncomfortable moments” in my life. i responded by remaining calm, and removing myself asap. thankfully, nothing came of those situations. aside from rapid heartbeat.

this thread is about whether gun safety instructions should be made available, with similar goals-expectations, as swim lessons/water safety instruction: prevention of accidents.

there is no intent (here) to get into how to respond to (Wednesday’s Florida school massacre.)
accidents are not premeditated murder.
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Re: Swim lessons, gun safety instructions ..

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Swimming is different. We train young ones to be able to swim for 2 reasons. 1) to protect themselves from drowning and 2) for enjoyment.
If we treat gun lessons the same as swim lessons, I fear the same motivations will be conveyed. That guns are for pleasure or protection. Both reasons are what feed the American gun fanaticism. We don't need to feed into it any more than needed.
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temporal1
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Re: Swim lessons, gun safety instructions ..

Post by temporal1 »

KingdomBuilder wrote:Swimming is different. We train young ones to be able to swim for 2 reasons. 1) to protect themselves from drowning and 2) for enjoyment.
If we treat gun lessons the same as swim lessons, I fear the same motivations will be conveyed. That guns are for pleasure or protection. Both reasons are what feed the American gun fanaticism. We don't need to feed into it any more than needed.
to be sure, swim instruction is optional, not required, i agree with this.
growing up, my mother was seriously TOW (Terrified of Water.)
with nerves of steel, her personal, quiet goal was to see all 6 of us learn to swim.
she prevailed! God bless her. :D i know it was not easy for her.

i did not like swim lessons. but i learned.
in olden days, we did lots of things we did not like. “liking” was optional.
“like it, or not, you’re doing this!” :lol:

what a person chooses to do with what they learn is a different matter, and, not 100% predictable.
years later, i found i enjoyed swimming. never joined a team or competed. just did a lot of lap swimming for exercise. took lifesaving. learned scuba, just to “mix it up,” learn new skills.

in our home, we followed my mother’s lead: swim lessons, and water safety, were a home requirement, refreshed about every year, no “once+done.” granddaughter, ditto. in our home, it’s just part of what we learn.

too many tragic stories of people not knowing how to swim, or, what to do to help someone in a water emergency, without ending with multiple drownings. sometimes, whole families have drowned, one after another trying to help a victim, they all get caught up and drown.

similar happens with ignorance of dangers of toy guns, or guns thought to be unloaded.
even small children can be taught basic safety. these incidents happen every year.

many parents already have options regarding gun safety training.

there is not as much “general knowledge” in the public about it.
it’s not a divisive political talking point, so, it doesn’t get notice.


politicians are after votes, not peace-making, or actual problem-solving. media loves a wild circus, reasonable responses do not get air time. “demanding LAW!” has become a national obsession. (even when there are plenty of existing laws! often, ignored, not enforced.)

to be sure, i’m not suggesting a new law. ugh. no. :P
just wondering about how to better prevent accidents caused by nothing more than ignorance.

this might have been a good topic for a poll. :)
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Re: Swim lessons, gun safety instructions ..

Post by Josh »

KingdomBuilder wrote:Swimming is different. We train young ones to be able to swim for 2 reasons. 1) to protect themselves from drowning and 2) for enjoyment.
If we treat gun lessons the same as swim lessons, I fear the same motivations will be conveyed. That guns are for pleasure or protection. Both reasons are what feed the American gun fanaticism. We don't need to feed into it any more than needed.
You know, some Anabaptists view swimming for enjoyment about as dimly as you might view having a gun hobby...
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Re: Swim lessons, gun safety instructions ..

Post by MaxPC »

Great thread, T. Perhaps a part of those gun safety lessons should instruct children to avoid handling the weapon and tell their parents where it is. A long time ago our cousin told us of a tragedy at her neighbors' house. The couple had two boys. The husband's brother had asked to store some of his things in their garage while he moved and they agreed. The boys found the gun and did not know it was loaded. Sadly while handling it, one brother accidentally shot the other brother and he died. Grievous.
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temporal1
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Re: Swim lessons, gun safety instructions ..

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote: You know, some Anabaptists view swimming for enjoyment about as dimly as you might view having a gun hobby ...
i learned a tiny bit about this on MD.
if you care to expand, that would be welcome. :)
MaxPC wrote: .. :arrow: Perhaps a part of those gun safety lessons should instruct children to avoid handling the weapon and tell their parents where it is.

A long time ago our cousin told us of a tragedy at her neighbors' house.
The couple had two boys. The husband's brother had asked to store some of his things in their garage while he moved and they agreed. The boys found the gun and did not know it was loaded. Sadly while handling it, one brother accidentally shot the other brother and he died. Grievous.
yes, indeed.
gun safety instruction is for everyone. it’s about prevention of accidents/injuries/deaths;
not about becoming proficient in use of shooting firearms. that’s a different matter.

ideally, these instructions should be taught IN THE HOME.
this is not an ideal world. lessons not-taught in homes “boggles the mind.”

toy guns, “unloaded” guns, kill every single year, without fail.
i heard this repeated by my father - one hundred times, if i heard it once! :shock:

yesterday. in my state. another one.
this time, a (should-be) grown man behaving like a child with an “unloaded” gun: friend killed. :(
.. “BELLEVILLE, Ill. (CNN Newsource) —
An Illinois man is accused of handling a shotgun when it accidentally went off, killing a friend.
Police in Belleville are charging 20-year-old Jewell Smith with involuntary manslaughter.
Investigators say a group of young men, all friends, were checking out a gun recently bought by the 19-year-old victim Cole Weirciszewski.
Captain Bruce Fleshren of the Belleville Police Department Case Squad said, "[He was] apparently handling it, moving around, manipulating it yet unaware that it was loaded or should have known it was loaded and a shot was fired."
The victim, who was shot in the chest, had reportedly overcome cancer.
Smith's bond was set at $100,000.”
i read somewhere, the family of the deceased has already forgiven the shooter, knowing the young men were good friends, accepting it as accidental.
Last edited by temporal1 on Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Swim lessons, gun safety instructions ..

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Josh wrote:You know, some Anabaptists view swimming for enjoyment about as dimly as you might view having a gun hobby...
Yeah... not sure I can relate with that one.
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temporal1
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Re: Swim lessons, gun safety instructions ..

Post by temporal1 »

KingdomBuilder wrote:
Josh wrote:You know, some Anabaptists view swimming for enjoyment about as dimly as you might view having a gun hobby...
Yeah... not sure I can relate with that one.
it’s interesting to learn. i hope Josh/others will add more about it.
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