Child injury or death, parent charged?

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PeterG
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Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?

Post by PeterG »

I appreciate the thoughtful response, Mike. I largely agree with you. And yes, this topic pushes my buttons, largely because of the experiences of people close to me.
mike wrote:I have been in many discussions over the years with friends and with my wife about whether we can say that God causes things like this. I don't like saying so. But I am comfortable with saying that God allows tragedies, and I have come to the conclusion that there isn't much difference philosophically.
This is one point on which we disagree. I think the philosophical difference is significant. It's similar to the difference between Calvinist and Anabaptist views on predestination.
mike wrote:My guess is that your strong objection has to do with a failure to take into account human choices and their logical consequences, thus failing to take adequate responsibility for the tragedy and making changes that would decrease the chance of it happening again. Being careless about safety and then if something happens, just call it an act of God. Do I read you correctly?
Yes, that's part of it. An even bigger factor for me is the unbiblical view of God and His sovereignty that this perspective on tragedy promotes. God, as you said, is not the source of evil. But what else are those who experience tragedy supposed to think when told, as they sometimes are, that it was God's will for them to go through these things? Scriptures such as 2 Cor. 12 and the Book of Job teach something very different, whatever the superficial similarities might be.
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appleman2006
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Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?

Post by appleman2006 »

Maybe I am missing some of what you say but I am not sure i agree. I think sometimes bad things (things that we view to be bad at least) happen to good people. To say otherwise really is prosperity gospel teaching ina somewhat reverse way.

I am not condoning carelessness in any way. In fact I am an outspoken critic of those that do stupid things whether that is doing crazy jumps with your sport mountain bike or putting your kids at undue risk riding on a loader tractor.

But once the accident has happens particularly when it was a situation that could be considered a fluke (going down a long flight of stairs with a skateboard and getting hurt is not a fluke regardless how talented you are) I tend to error on the side of compassion to the one that made a mistake. Losing a child is all the punishment a person like that needs IMO. And in cases like that it is alright I think for the Christian to try and react in a redemptive way and to discover what good God may wish to derive from what appears in our limited view to be a horrible thing. God sees things in an eternal light. We see through a dark glass.
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Josh
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Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?

Post by Josh »

PeterG wrote:
Hats Off wrote:We may consider them to be acts of God
They are not acts of God. They are the tragic consequences of human choices (Adam and Eve's, if no others).
Getting killed by operating modern, dangerous electro-mechanical equipment is definitely an act of man, not an act of God.

I’d be more sympathetic to these kind of accidents if they happen to people who don’t use much technology beyond a horse and a plow.
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?

Post by ken_sylvania »

Josh wrote:
PeterG wrote:
Hats Off wrote:We may consider them to be acts of God
They are not acts of God. They are the tragic consequences of human choices (Adam and Eve's, if no others).
Getting killed by operating modern, dangerous electro-mechanical equipment is definitely an act of man, not an act of God.

I’d be more sympathetic to these kind of accidents if they happen to people who don’t use much technology beyond a horse and a plow.
I don't follow your logic. Using a tractor and plow is a safer way to plow a field than using a horse and plow.
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ShantyShaker
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Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?

Post by ShantyShaker »

PeterG wrote:I appreciate the thoughtful response, Mike. I largely agree with you. And yes, this topic pushes my buttons, largely because of the experiences of people close to me.
mike wrote:I have been in many discussions over the years with friends and with my wife about whether we can say that God causes things like this. I don't like saying so. But I am comfortable with saying that God allows tragedies, and I have come to the conclusion that there isn't much difference philosophically.
This is one point on which we disagree. I think the philosophical difference is significant. It's similar to the difference between Calvinist and Anabaptist views on predestination.
mike wrote:My guess is that your strong objection has to do with a failure to take into account human choices and their logical consequences, thus failing to take adequate responsibility for the tragedy and making changes that would decrease the chance of it happening again. Being careless about safety and then if something happens, just call it an act of God. Do I read you correctly?
Yes, that's part of it. An even bigger factor for me is the unbiblical view of God and His sovereignty that this perspective on tragedy promotes. God, as you said, is not the source of evil. But what else are those who experience tragedy supposed to think when told, as they sometimes are, that it was God's will for them to go through these things? Scriptures such as 2 Cor. 12 and the Book of Job teach something very different, whatever the superficial similarities might be.
The point you you make from Job is one I've been mulling over ever since the death of our infant son. It is the way I see it, God "allows" these "tragedies" to happen, but the source of all this is of Satan. Satan wants to destroy everything and everyone.
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RZehr
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Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?

Post by RZehr »

https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/4465 ... ants-work-

Recently our county did some open house/community outreach event to generate interest in foster care. They desperately need families. All they’d have to do is change some laws to be more reasonable, and more people would be willing. I don’t want to risk a foster child getting hurt, and then go to jail on some trumped up bogus charges, be investigated, have my children taken.
The way this is all headed, we will have ‘orphanages’ again.
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mike
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Re: Child injury or death, parent charged?

Post by mike »

RZehr wrote:https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/4465 ... ants-work-

Recently our county did some open house/community outreach event to generate interest in foster care. They desperately need families. All they’d have to do is change some laws to be more reasonable, and more people would be willing. I don’t want to risk a foster child getting hurt, and then go to jail on some trumped up bogus charges, be investigated, have my children taken.
The way this is all headed, we will have ‘orphanages’ again.
If you could manage to convince your state that you have the solutions, looks like that might be worth about $3,000,000.
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
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