Flannel shirts

[temporal1]

I hope some day we restore the custom of making men's clothes like we do women's. It is an important part of our lives and something worth maintaining control over.

I also find it strange that women's clothing is to be made, but men's clothing can be store bought.

my guess is, i sewed for my young family, i sewed a few men's shirts .. but, generally speaking, women's fabrics can be sewn with ordinary machines, much of men's clothing, esp work clothing, requires heavy machines and needles, more tailoring skills. i tried to do some sewing on heavier fabrics! needles break, seams are not quality, etc.

it's not easy to sew hems on most work pants, twills, denim, etc. by hand or machine.

hopefully, Sunbeam or others may see these questions for more up-to-date reasons.

i can imagine wives are happy to not have to tackle sewing men's clothing.

[Signtist]

I hope some day we restore the custom of making men's clothes like we do women's. It is an important part of our lives and something worth maintaining control over.

I also find it strange that women's clothing is to be made, but men's clothing can be store bought.

It seems that there is some men's clothing that we can buy and still be God honouring. Women's clothing in the world is farther away in finding anything that fits with biblical principles.
And besides we have bought lots of dresses for my wife and daughters - store bought!
The place we buy from has a website but I can't say how much advertising they want so if you want a to know of an excellent place to buy custom cape dresses from, for a great price, and excellent quality - PM me.

What are the biblical principles within which ladies clothing should fit?

[Haystack]

It seems that there is some men's clothing that we can buy and still be God honouring. Women's clothing in the world is farther away in finding anything that fits with biblical principles.
And besides we have bought lots of dresses for my wife and daughters - store bought!
The place we buy from has a website but I can't say how much advertising they want so if you want a to know of an excellent place to buy custom cape dresses from, for a great price, and excellent quality - PM me.

my guess is, i sewed for my young family, i sewed a few men's shirts .. but, generally speaking, women's fabrics can be sewn with ordinary machines, much of men's clothing, esp work clothing, requires heavy machines and needles, more tailoring skills. i tried to do some sewing on heavier fabrics! needles break, seams are not quality, etc.

it's not easy to sew hems on most work pants, twills, denim, etc. by hand or machine.

hopefully, Sunbeam or others may see these questions for more up-to-date reasons.

i can imagine wives are happy to not have to tackle sewing men's clothing.

I think what Josh was getting at is women have kept the same standards of dress, while men don't really look all that plain anymore. (At least that's how I interperated his comment).

Wade, is the place you are talking about located in Indiana? If so I believe I know which store you are referring to.

Temporal, that's an interesting point about making men's clothing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that most of Amish mens clothing is purchased at a plain tailor then?

[Wade]

I also find it strange that women's clothing is to be made, but men's clothing can be store bought.

It seems that there is some men's clothing that we can buy and still be God honouring. Women's clothing in the world is farther away in finding anything that fits with biblical principles.
And besides we have bought lots of dresses for my wife and daughters - store bought!
The place we buy from has a website but I can't say how much advertising they want so if you want a to know of an excellent place to buy custom cape dresses from, for a great price, and excellent quality - PM me.

What are the biblical principles within which ladies clothing should fit?

When I have talked about this before often others have disagreed but since you asked:
1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Notice the "In like manner also," as the verses before are talking about holy men therefore there are principles that also apply to the men. Often it seems to cause contention when the focus is so much on the women so I want to make it clear that the men are not "off the hook." However because of males and females having different roles it is also fitting that they dress differently. Maybe we men need to take a serious look at how we are handling ourselves with this? (When I go out just grocery shopping, my wife is all dressed up with head covering and cape dress - I think it really is helpful to her when I put on my plain suit coat on to go with her and therefore I should also do that when she isn't with and I have to go somewhere too.) The broad-falls she bought me for work are really high quality and I really appreciate the pockets are not a thin material so they don't wear-out when I pack tools in them. My wife found a women on-line that shops garage sales in Pennsylvania and then sells these cloths for a few dollars. Great pants for only a few dollars and I have been wearing them for a couple years now.

Modest apparel - to me is simple and plain. I also recall reading I think from the Strong's of this also meaning neat and clean or something close to that.
Shamefacedness and sobriety - gives me the idea of humble clothing that is not designed to draw attention to self or the body.
Broided hair - we also see in scripture that a woman's hair is her glory and so can be used as a snare or distraction - God is an avenger of the defrauded.
Gold - God created us as we are and also allows any deformity or whatever for good. Trying to make are self look better with jewelry seems like a rejection of God and how He made a person - to me anyway... Even a wedding ring is outside submitting and obeying Him if we take the bible literally and real to the Christian's life. (I had to tell the jeweler I was going to throw them in the trash if he didn't take them back as I just couldn't with a clear conscience.)
Pearls and costly array - also fitting with the gold that Christians have a focus of giving and serving - not exalting self but of building others up. (My wife had some really old nice pearl necklaces handing down even - gone.)

Simplicity, Modesty, humility, practical, are some things that seem to fit in with being God honouring. However simplicity, modesty, humility, and practical are things that each of may look at differently. So for me although I would not subscribe to the Old Testament as laws for us to necessarily follow as new creatures in Christ, I would still look to it for some help in looking at how God may view these things.

Isaiah 47 Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.
2 Take the millstones, and grind meal: uncover thy locks, make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers.
3 Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.

Would it be safe to say that God with the example of Adam and Eve hiding themselves, covering with little and then God clothing them more plus from what we read in Isaiah 47 that God shares some of his ideas about being covered up properly? (Not tight fitting clothing - dresses seem to have a good way of distinguishing genders in a world that doesn't want to (even bathroom signs still show woman in dresses.)) It seems to me uncovered legs are a shame and this scripture in Isaiah even calls a woman not covering her hair a shame(I know he is talking about the people of God or church but is he not painting a picture of that more clearly for us saying it this way?) and Paul says the in Church of God the woman do with no other practice or have any contention about it.
There are more scripture saying much more than just these - I have found lots that talk about how God feels about make-up and other things too.

Anyway, flannel shirts... That's where we should be... If they fit with some proper principles then it seems to me it would be just fine to where them. While people may remember what you are wearing if you are dressed as a conservative Mennonite they are more likely to remember your attitude or spirit if you planted seeds in your time with them and this is especially true if your clothing isn't attention drawing.

[temporal1]

Haystack -
I think what Josh was getting at is women have kept the same standards of dress, while men don't really look all that plain anymore. (At least that's how I interperated his comment).

yes, i'm still learning about where Josh is on this. he sees from a different perspective than mine, i'm not yet sure what he's saying. learning.
he seems to be bothered by a possible double standard (that others are not bothered by(?)

Haystack -
Temporal, that's an interesting point about making men's clothing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that most of Amish mens clothing is purchased at a plain tailor then?

this is where i hope others who live with these fellowship clothing rules will contribute.
on MD, there were so-many clothing threads! a wealth of information, including how members help one another in various ways, esp new members, as they adapt to required clothing standards.

i'm not sure, but, possibly, the Amish, or plain, men's pants are not made of such heavy materials as is common with the heavier ready-made denims and twills? i'm not certain!

one video (?) on a Hutterite colony described how certain members were assigned to making clothing for all, they had the correct tools and space for that purpose. they did similar for various common jobs, different members would be assigned different jobs for the common community.

my understanding is limited.
i am speculating about the challenges of heavy weight fabrics from my personal experience.
hoping those who know will fill in with facts.

[Josh]

why is making men's clothing an important part of "our life?"

Because otherwise we cede control to an industry and a group of people at complete odds with our values.

[Signtist]

When I have talked about this before often others have disagreed but since you asked:
1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Agreed. The only burden this verse places on ladies is modesty. There are other places where we get the principle of gender distinction as well and the case can be made for distinction from "the world" as well. But beyond these things much of what we hold to dearly is not found in scripture but in our desire to appear different from others of similar belief structures.

There are things for sale in every town that are modest and feminine. Why should be place this burden of needing to sew on the ladies? Now before you can join our group you need to spend $1000 on a good sewing machine and get a PHD in tailoring. A cape dress (says my wife) is anything but simple to sew.

[Wade]

When I have talked about this before often others have disagreed but since you asked:
1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Agreed. The only burden this verse places on ladies is modesty. There are other places where we get the principle of gender distinction as well and the case can be made for distinction from "the world" as well. But beyond these things much of what we hold to dearly is not found in scripture but in our desire to appear different from others of similar belief structures.

There are things for sale in every town that are modest and feminine. Why should be place this burden of needing to sew on the ladies? Now before you can join our group you need to spend $1000 on a good sewing machine and get a PHD in tailoring. A cape dress (says my wife) is anything but simple to sew.

I'll admit the appearing different still confuses me? Never been big on fashion so it has taken me some time to realize different groups do little things different in regards to clothing. I don't mean I know the differences but rather recognizing that they do do things deliberately different.

I believe we are called to seek and follow God and therefore will be different and not just to be different so then we can seek God. If my reason for different dress is just to be different then I don't think I could do that while maintaining a non-resistant heart... But if we are seeking to follow Christ and worship God in all aspects of our lives and that makes us different - then praise God. (It might cause more excitement but for example the only reason I have ever been told that some Anabaptist's shave there mustache off is because military people had them - I still don't understand this as a biblical or non-resistant reason? Although if that was what the brotherhood wanted I understand and would submit to it.)

The majority of my wives cape dresses were made and giving to us by a deacon's wife and then others also gave us some of their dresses. The deacon gave me a plain suit coat that one of his sons no longer used.

I do think that affordability and skill has to fit into being practical for old and newcomers. There are a lot more changes that can happen to join, such as changing; vehicles, homes, locations, wardrobes, libraries, etc., etc.; $1000 is not even the tip of what it costs a person coming from the world to change and join a group, and those are just material things anyway...

[temporal1]

how many wives do you have, Wade?
that does sound expensive.

[Haystack]

I do think that affordability and skill has to fit into being practical for old and newcomers. There are a lot more changes that can happen to join, such as changing; vehicles, homes, locations, wardrobes, libraries, etc., etc.; $1000 is not even the tip of what it costs a person coming from the world to change and join a group, and those are just material things anyway...

This could be a whole new interesting topic in itself. Changes and challenges involved of joining certain groups.