How should we be political?

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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Bootstrap
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How should we be political?

Post by Bootstrap »

I thought this was too good to get lost in its original thread, so I'm reposting it here.
Sudsy wrote:I thought this to be a good article regarding Mennonite involvement in politics called - How Should We Be political ?

http://mennoworld.org/2017/02/13/the-wo ... political/

What do you agree with / disagree with in this article?
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Hats Off
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Re: How should we be political?

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"Instead, when we critique policies or rebuke leaders, may we do it out of loyalty to kingdom principles and a desire to show the world that so many national political values do not line up with kingdom values. We must critique inasmuch as we’re showing a difference between the two." This is a quote from the article. I don't think I have enough knowledge of political affairs to really rebuke a leader. I really don't believe Justin Trudeau would listen or care if I attempted to rebuke him.
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Neto
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Re: How should we be political?

Post by Neto »

Mostly disagree. Their point # 1 (last one mentioned), partially agree. Well, I agree with the statement, except that then they make it say something different. I do not see evidence for Jesus having any political involvement with the controlling political power of his day, the Romans. He did speak to the religious leaders, of course, and they did wield some political power, but I think that he spoke to them in the context of their position as religious leaders, not in any capacity as political leaders, perceived or real.

[This article pretty clearly follows the sort of position I took during my "activist-pacifist" era, but I no longer support that viewpoint.]
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Sudsy
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Re: How should we be political?

Post by Sudsy »

Hats Off wrote:"Instead, when we critique policies or rebuke leaders, may we do it out of loyalty to kingdom principles and a desire to show the world that so many national political values do not line up with kingdom values. We must critique inasmuch as we’re showing a difference between the two." This is a quote from the article. I don't think I have enough knowledge of political affairs to really rebuke a leader. I really don't believe Justin Trudeau would listen or care if I attempted to rebuke him.
Regarding your quote, I think one contrast in Kingdom versus kingdom at this point is in the 'Make America Great Again' quest, there is this need to be recognized as the greatest and even if this requires less support for other countries who have so much less. Kingdom of God promotion comes by humility and self sacrifice for others. Jesus taught that whoever humbles himself like a little child shall be greatest in the Kingdom of God. As Kingdom people we should be reflecting a giving spirit even if some make take advantage of it. Compared to most of the world we live in luxury.
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Sudsy
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Re: How should we be political?

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Neto wrote:Mostly disagree. Their point # 1 (last one mentioned), partially agree. Well, I agree with the statement, except that then they make it say something different. I do not see evidence for Jesus having any political involvement with the controlling political power of his day, the Romans. He did speak to the religious leaders, of course, and they did wield some political power, but I think that he spoke to them in the context of their position as religious leaders, not in any capacity as political leaders, perceived or real.

[This article pretty clearly follows the sort of position I took during my "activist-pacifist" era, but I no longer support that viewpoint.]
I took what this writer was saying is that the idea of talking about another Kingdom than the one they were stuck in, in itself was a political involvement as far as the Romans were concerned. To stand for something that differs from the system you are in can be seen as political involvement. Or did I miss your point ?
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Neto
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Re: How should we be political?

Post by Neto »

Sudsy wrote:
Neto wrote:Mostly disagree. Their point # 1 (last one mentioned), partially agree. Well, I agree with the statement, except that then they make it say something different. I do not see evidence for Jesus having any political involvement with the controlling political power of his day, the Romans. He did speak to the religious leaders, of course, and they did wield some political power, but I think that he spoke to them in the context of their position as religious leaders, not in any capacity as political leaders, perceived or real.

[This article pretty clearly follows the sort of position I took during my "activist-pacifist" era, but I no longer support that viewpoint.]
I took what this writer was saying is that the idea of talking about another Kingdom than the one they were stuck in, in itself was a political involvement as far as the Romans were concerned. To stand for something that differs from the system you are in can be seen as political involvement. Or did I miss your point ?
I understood them in the same way as you state here, but I think that is a smoke-screen of sorts to justify political involvement. It is at that point that I disagree. They interpret the mere fact of the existence of the conflict between the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of this world as a reason to be involved in the kingdom of this world, or this belief (that there is another Kingdom) in and of itself as a sort of resultant activist/protest involvement. While I did at one time believe that, I no longer think it is a Biblical stance. I believe that when we become a part of the Kingdom of God, we become aliens in the kingdom of the world, and aliens don't vote (except in some Democrat-controlled areas, according to some reports :!: ).
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Bootstrap
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Re: How should we be political?

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Hats Off wrote:"Instead, when we critique policies or rebuke leaders, may we do it out of loyalty to kingdom principles and a desire to show the world that so many national political values do not line up with kingdom values. We must critique inasmuch as we’re showing a difference between the two." This is a quote from the article. I don't think I have enough knowledge of political affairs to really rebuke a leader. I really don't believe Justin Trudeau would listen or care if I attempted to rebuke him.
What about moral outrage at the behavior of leaders? Do we know enough to do that?

Would you take a position on abortion? Or on refugees?
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Bootstrap
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Re: How should we be political?

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Neto wrote:I understood them in the same way as you state here, but I think that is a smoke-screen of sorts to justify political involvement. It is at that point that I disagree. They interpret the mere fact of the existence of the conflict between the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of this world as a reason to be involved in the kingdom of this world, or this belief (that there is another Kingdom) in and of itself as a sort of resultant activist/protest involvement.
He is talking precisely about speaking out:
This principle is exactly why I, a non-voting Anabaptist/Mennonite type, still speak out on some political issues: I want to illustrate the difference between the two kingdoms.
Are you saying you would not speak out on any political issue? Would you speak out on moral issues? How do you separate the two?
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Re: How should we be political?

Post by Neto »

Bootstrap wrote:
Neto wrote:I understood them in the same way as you state here, but I think that is a smoke-screen of sorts to justify political involvement. It is at that point that I disagree. They interpret the mere fact of the existence of the conflict between the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of this world as a reason to be involved in the kingdom of this world, or this belief (that there is another Kingdom) in and of itself as a sort of resultant activist/protest involvement.
He is talking precisely about speaking out:
This principle is exactly why I, a non-voting Anabaptist/Mennonite type, still speak out on some political issues: I want to illustrate the difference between the two kingdoms.
Are you saying you would not speak out on any political issue? Would you speak out on moral issues? How do you separate the two?
I did not address "speaking out", but political involvement, which I am interpreting as "becoming a part of the political process, in order to bring about some change". But I do think that as far as "speaking out" goes, our main focus should be speaking to those within our own kingdom. Our "involvement" in the other kingdom ought to be limited to touching the lives of individual members of that kingdom, as much as possible through one-on-one contact, and secondly, through helping those who do have that one-to-one contact. Rather than "speaking out", I think we should be "acting out" (our faith, by doing what all men are intended to do by God's design, not just as an "example to be followed", but focused on the person(s) involved, to bring about wholeness).
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Once Again
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Re: How should we be political?

Post by Once Again »

Nowhere in the new testament do Jesus or the apostles teach that we should try to advance the kingdom through politics. Isn't getting involved in politics changing our focus from God's Kingdom to the kingdom of this lost and dying world? Voting, political demonstrations and any other sort of political involvement is not going to have the affect we want. Liberal or conservative, Christians who involve themselves in politics end up supporting immoral and corrupt men and women who at best give lip-service to Christian ideals. We are hurting our witness with the lost people we are trying to save by having one foot in the Kingdom and one foot in the world. No matter which side we take, we may end up alienating people who hold to different political views. If we really want to MAGA in a spiritual sense, it will be by reaching out with our words and example.
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