President Trump: A MennoNet Poll

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.

POLL: What do you think about the Trump presidency so far?

 
Total votes: 0

User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23808
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: President Trump: A MennoNet Poll

Post by Josh »

moral? trustworthy? honest? loyal? a unifier?
Is it even possible or desirable for someone to do all these things apart from a life submitted to Christ? Should we expect it?

Why are these specific virtues elevated about all else?

Do we really want a “unified” America? Unified towards what goal, exactly?
0 x
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14439
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: President Trump: A MennoNet Poll

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:Do you think the inside of his cup is clean? Do you think he is moral? trustworthy? honest? loyal? a unifier? What "inside of the cup" virtues do you see in Donald Trump?
Do I think Donald Trump is a conservative Anabaptist? No, I don’t.

As far as positive things about Trump? Yes, I see some, but I also see positive things in many other leaders in many other settings. I also see negative things.
Of course he is not a conservative Anabaptist. Would you choose him as the principal of a high school? A classroom teacher? The CEO of your company, assuming your company believes in business ethics? As a small businessman, would you do business with him and assume he would keep the promises he made in his contract? Do you think he understand and values American democracy and the American constitution? Do you consider him an honorable man?
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14439
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: President Trump: A MennoNet Poll

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:
moral? trustworthy? honest? loyal? a unifier?
Is it even possible or desirable for someone to do all these things apart from a life submitted to Christ? Should we expect it?
I don't even sign a contract with someone who is not moral, trustworthy, and honest.

And you know what, I think Americans agree on more than they disagree on. People who believe in freedom and democracy have an awful lot in common. The extremists who divide this country are not doing us any good - on the left or on the right.

So yes, when I look at a politician, I look at his character. I often vote for someone whose character I respect even if his views do not match mine on some issues. Character is the opposite of corruption. Character is the opposite of the swamp. Without character, swamps just get deeper.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23808
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: President Trump: A MennoNet Poll

Post by Josh »

Of course he is not a conservative Anabaptist. Would you choose him as the principal of a high school? A classroom teacher? The CEO of your company, assuming your company believes in business ethics? As a small businessman, would you do business with him and assume he would keep the promises he made in his contract? Do you think he understand and values American democracy and the American constitution? Do you consider him an honorable man?
I don’t support anyone as a high school principal or teacher other than CAs. Of course, other people can run schools as they see fit, so the way I live my values is to promote and volunteer for and assist CA schools.

I generally stopped having an opinion on what makes a good/bad CEO. With that said, I don’t work for any Trump enterprise, so obviously I’ve decided I’d rather work for somebody else.

As a small businessman, Trump’s various enterprises would concern me less than a lot of outfits I’ve done business with; they also wouldn’t be my first choice of vendor or customer.

I don’t really care a lot about American democracy or the constitution since I think God is in charge of rulers and nations, not voters. I don’t have much interest in a constitution which enshrined chattels slavery.

I’m not sure what “an honourable man” means. If a man does not live his life in service to Christ, all is lost. I believe that following Christ, obeying the Bible, and conservative Anabaptism are essentially the same thing, and that there is a narrow way that leads to life, and a broad path leading to destruction.

I doubt Trump is on that narrow path although it’s not my place to judge. But I also doubt people like Lincoln, Washington, Queen Elizabeth I, Constantine, or other leaders of great renown ever found that narrow road either.
0 x
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23808
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: President Trump: A MennoNet Poll

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote:
Josh wrote:
moral? trustworthy? honest? loyal? a unifier?
Is it even possible or desirable for someone to do all these things apart from a life submitted to Christ? Should we expect it?
I don't even sign a contract with someone who is not moral, trustworthy, and honest.

And you know what, I think Americans agree on more than they disagree on. People who believe in freedom and democracy have an awful lot in common. The extremists who divide this country are not doing us any good - on the left or on the right.

So yes, when I look at a politician, I look at his character. I often vote for someone whose character I respect even if his views do not match mine on some issues. Character is the opposite of corruption. Character is the opposite of the swamp. Without character, swamps just get deeper.
What kind of “morals” and “character” does someone have who kills babies?
0 x
KingdomBuilder
Posts: 1482
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:00 pm
Affiliation: church of Christ

Re: President Trump: A MennoNet Poll

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Josh wrote:What kind of “morals” and “character” does someone have who kills babies?
Or who wants to kill those who already tread the earth
0 x
Ponder anew what the Almighty can do
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23808
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: President Trump: A MennoNet Poll

Post by Josh »

KingdomBuilder wrote:
Josh wrote:What kind of “morals” and “character” does someone have who kills babies?
Or who want to kill those who already tread the earth
I didn’t specify born or unborn, but I think we can all agree murdering infants is intrinsically immoral, and it’s a pastime every recent President has engaged in (although Trump has really dialled back the deep-state era drone warfare and also doesn’t seem to be pro-abortion).

It seems looking for a moral President is a fool’s errand. What kind of person is going to command a global nuclear arsenal, with the threat of murdering the whole world, without being immoral in some rather significant way?
0 x
temporal1
Posts: 16275
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: President Trump: A MennoNet Poll

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:Josh, it feels like you take it personally when people criticize Trump. Is that true? If so, why?
I don’t take it personally. I do think there’s a complete lack of perspective that many, many people exist who are decent, reasonable people who voted for Trump, are glad he won, and feel he is representing them well. Many of these people voted for Obama once or twice.

The elitism displayed by those who can’t fathom the above could possibly be true is what disturbs me.

I also do take it personally when Christians (and particularly Anabaptists) want a president who is a cup that is clean on the outside, but don’t seem nearly as concerned with the inside. I’m not really sure why a mass murderer who doesn’t use foul language is somehow preferable, but that does seem be the consensus here.
not that my thots matter, :)
i find Josh consistent in his response to any topic where he questions the (status quo.) Trump is not an exception.
I don’t always agree or understand you, Josh, but, i appreciate your sincere effort in attempting to seek both truth and Truth. this is not always the comfortable path. but, in time, it usually ends better than (other paths.) Jesus did not say He came to make us comfortable.

i barely pay attention to the Muller controversy.
as a spectator, trying to unravel fact from fiction on some of these matters, is not a good investment of time. as has been stated on this forum, on other cases in the past, the public does not have full facts. we are definitely baited to take sides, to dig in for that side! but, often, important facts are not made available (sometimes, ever) .. eventually, one side feels vindicated, the other red-faced, or angry, or both.

various questions were asked of hillary that were dismissed, continue to be dismissed, not magnified. presently, libs hold the mainstream magnifying glass. the math is basic.
there is so much rampant bias.
the only thing we can be sure of would be we can be sure of nothing.

regarding for-profit corporate abortion - (because, for-profit is the unspoken, but, “operative phrase) -
just listening to obama, then hillary, formally “cast their lots” with for-profits on this, making it a party platform (not unlike Trudeau is doing in Canada) - this, alone, was the final deal-breaker (for me.)
no other campaign promise can erase grisly from that scenario.

there may be Dems who would not support this.
so far as i can detect, they are not allowed to speak, they are not allowed high office. policies are set from the party’s top, alignment+loyalty are required, and rewarded, from there. i see this in Illinois politics all the time. the Chicago DNC cannot be discerned from DC DNC. it’s as tho they all read their assigned scripts, then, go home and forget about it. in my mind, to a bizarre extent.
Last edited by temporal1 on Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
KingdomBuilder
Posts: 1482
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:00 pm
Affiliation: church of Christ

Re: President Trump: A MennoNet Poll

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Josh wrote:It seems looking for a moral President is a fool’s errand. What kind of person is going to command a global nuclear arsenal, with the threat of murdering the whole world, without being immoral in some rather significant way?
:clap: Right on
0 x
Ponder anew what the Almighty can do
temporal1
Posts: 16275
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: President Trump: A MennoNet Poll

Post by temporal1 »

KingdomBuilder wrote:
Josh wrote:It seems looking for a moral President is a fool’s errand.
What kind of person is going to command a global nuclear arsenal, with the threat of murdering the whole world, without being immoral in some rather significant way?
:clap: Right on
Anabaptism 101 - ? :P
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
Post Reply