Bunny trail on borders

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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Josh
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Re: Bunny trail on borders

Post by Josh »

It’s pretty ridiculous to accuse me of “whatsboutism” when I point out that a major
first world country (and US ally) admits zero refugees and questioning why the US should relocate refugees very far from their homelands just because of some ideal that different countries should share the burden.

Doesn’t it make more sense for America to focus on refugees we should bring in from places like Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean? That’s exactly what we’ve done with Haiti and Cuba.

America has a population of about 12 million illegal immigrants, which we can safely assume are a mix of refugees and economic migrants.
Why doesn’t the rest of the world do a bit of its fair share to shoulder the burden we carry there?
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Bootstrap
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Re: Bunny trail on borders

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:Why doesn’t the rest of the world do a bit of its fair share to shoulder the burden we carry there?
The rest of the world is doing just that. The countries closest to Syria are carrying a huge portion of the burden. 23 countries have more Syrian refugees than the United States, including countries like Bulgaria. Take a look at the numbers in my earlier post - the United States support for Syrian refugees is a tiny fraction of the load.

We've been a lot more involved in Syria than most of these countries. Traditionally, America has been open to refugees, especially where we have had significant military and political involvement. We have usually negotiated to get other countries to carry their share too.
Josh wrote:It’s pretty ridiculous to accuse me of “whatsboutism” when I point out that a major
first world country (and US ally) admits zero refugees and questioning why the US should relocate refugees very far from their homelands just because of some ideal that different countries should share the burden.
Whataboutism: diverting attention from discussing our responsibility by pointing out a possible moral failing in Israel. Please don't take it personally, it's become a big part of the way most people discuss politics. But it only distracts.
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Josh
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Re: Bunny trail on borders

Post by Josh »

The rest of the world is not hosting 10% of Mexico’s population. American is.

Ultimately, if we relocate enough of the third world to America, America will be a third world country, too. I’m not sure why so many on the left are so eager to speed this up.
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silentreader
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Re: Bunny trail on borders

Post by silentreader »

Josh wrote:It’s pretty ridiculous to accuse me of “whatsboutism” when I point out that a major
first world country (and US ally) admits zero refugees and questioning why the US should relocate refugees very far from their homelands just because of some ideal that different countries should share the burden.

Doesn’t it make more sense for America to focus on refugees we should bring in from places like Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean? That’s exactly what we’ve done with Haiti and Cuba.

America has a population of about 12 million illegal immigrants, which we can safely assume are a mix of refugees and economic migrants.
Why doesn’t the rest of the world do a bit of its fair share to shoulder the burden we carry there?
Israel doesn't take any refugees? Not all refugees are Syrians. You may want to reconsider that.
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Josh
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Re: Bunny trail on borders

Post by Josh »

Israel just tightened things down on refugees.

Israel orders African refugees to leave country within three months or face prison
The Israeli government has ordered thousands of African refugees and migrants to leave the country within three months or face prison.

The Population and Immigration Authority called this week on those from Sudan and Eritrea to leave "to their country or to a third country", meaning Rwanda or Uganda.

Those who leave by the end of March will be given $3,500 (£2,600), along with money to cover their airfare. But those who do not have been threatened with imprisonment.

...

Israel calls them "infiltrators" and says they are mostly economic migrants whose numbers threaten its Jewish character.

But many of the roughly 38,000 “infiltrators” in the country have fled conflict and persecution.
Most refugees entered the country informally; they are not allowed to roam freely throughout the country.
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RZehr
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Re: Bunny trail on borders

Post by RZehr »

As a Christian, I am conflicted by the idea of mass Muslim immigration to N America.
The reasons are that I do not want this religion to spread. It is a false religion that holds millions of people in darkness and going to hell. But on the other hand it sure is easier to have them come here and be converted to Christianity than for us to go there and convert them. While the people are not the enemy, false religion is our enemy.
So maybe the best way is for them to trickle over here and not flood over here.

The same is true about other false religions, but it seems that Islam is much more evangelical than other religions. We don't need more people converting to these false religions.

I'm not saying that I think we are being overwhelmed. This is just an thought exercise.
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silentreader
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Re: Bunny trail on borders

Post by silentreader »

Josh wrote:Israel just tightened things down on refugees.

Israel orders African refugees to leave country within three months or face prison
The Israeli government has ordered thousands of African refugees and migrants to leave the country within three months or face prison.

The Population and Immigration Authority called this week on those from Sudan and Eritrea to leave "to their country or to a third country", meaning Rwanda or Uganda.

Those who leave by the end of March will be given $3,500 (£2,600), along with money to cover their airfare. But those who do not have been threatened with imprisonment.

...

Israel calls them "infiltrators" and says they are mostly economic migrants whose numbers threaten its Jewish character.

But many of the roughly 38,000 “infiltrators” in the country have fled conflict and persecution.
Most refugees entered the country informally; they are not allowed to roam freely throughout the country.
Sounds like they may be 'illegal immigrants'.
How many million refugees has Israel taken in and settled over the years?
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Josh
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Re: Bunny trail on borders

Post by Josh »

Depends on how you define “refugee”. In Israeli immigration doctrine, Jewish refugees are not refugees or migrants, but are actually simply returning to their homelands.

What Bootstrap is proposing is entirely different; I think he is saying he wants America to aggressively invite non-American people to America who have no connection to America. That’s very different from the Israeli way of doing things.
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silentreader
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Re: Bunny trail on borders

Post by silentreader »

Josh wrote:Depends on how you define “refugee”. In Israeli immigration doctrine, Jewish refugees are not refugees or migrants, but are actually simply returning to their homelands.

What Bootstrap is proposing is entirely different; I think he is saying he wants America to aggressively invite non-American people to America who have no connection to America. That’s very different from the Israeli way of doing things.
In the actual meaning of 'refugees', that, however, is what the vast percentage of them are.
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Josh
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Re: Bunny trail on borders

Post by Josh »

silentreader wrote:In the actual meaning of 'refugees', that, however, is what the vast percentage of them are.
Okay, then let's look at it this way. Israel is a 1st world country which sets its refugee and immigration policy such that they encouraged refugees that are the ethnic mix they want, or the same as the current ethnic mix of the country. So European background refugees were encouraged.

An equivalent thing in America would be if we required refugees to come in from different ethnic backgrounds in equal numbers to the ethnic groups already established in America. Of course, America would never do that. The question I am raising is why America has the duty to do so, when a country that is smack dab in the middle of the Middle East sets a very, very different policy.

For another example of a country that is large, wealthy, yet does almost nothing for refugees in its back yard, look at Saudi Arabia. Most Syrians are Sunni Muslim, including a lot of refugees. Saudi Arabia is a friendly place for Sunni Muslims. Both countries speak Arabic. So why aren't they eagerly welcoming refugees into their borders, but instead pushing the problem to Lebanon, Turkey, and Europe?
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