POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.

Which statement most closely represents your views on Christian political involvement?

 
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temporal1
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Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics

Post by temporal1 »

gcdonner wrote:There is obviously no full fledged Baptist on this forum...
25 votes out of 246 members.
low voter turnout, as is common in the world.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Bootstrap
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Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics

Post by Bootstrap »

lesterb wrote:I voted for number one because I wasn't sure what the involvements of number two were. I do not believe that we should be nonchalant about things like abortion or gay marriage, etc. But I'm not interested in joining a political protest movement, because I feel they are basically useless, as well as not being Biblical.
I mostly agree with you - though I'm not sure what "not being Biblical" means in this context.

But there are exceptions. Had I been old enough, I certainly would have protested segregation laws by eating together with black brethren in restaurants here in the South. If the law says I cannot have basic fellowship with my brothers and sisters like that, I would protest it by having fellowship in public. To me, that is also prophetic.
lesterb wrote:On the other hand, I feel that as individuals that are part of a community, we should be ready to help in such situations as we can, from a Christian perspective. A thousand Christians showing love and truth to their neighbors and co-workers will be far more effective than that same thousand Christians gathering a street corner waving signs and shouting slogans. Or even distributing petitions.

I think my choice hinges somewhat on Dan's definition of speaking prophetically.
I think we can be more effective if we are more visible. I have seen a few writings by gay Christians who have chosen to remain celibate, and who praise their supportive brethren in their communities. That is so much better than condemning people. I have seen writings by Christians who have adopted unwanted children. Let's be visible about these things!
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
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Josh
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Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics

Post by Josh »

The Bible says nothing about celebrating "gay Christians who are celibate". On the other hand it sure has plenty of condemnations of homosexual behaviour all over the New Testament.
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gcdonner
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Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics

Post by gcdonner »

Josh wrote:The Bible says nothing about celebrating "gay Christians who are celibate". On the other hand it sure has plenty of condemnations of homosexual behaviour all over the New Testament.
But, if the gay (sic) person is celibate, they don't have "homosexual behavior" do they, any more than a heterosexual person who refrains from fornication has?
Which sin is the greater? Both are resisting sin, are they not? However, that being said, how many restrained fornicators would confess to being a Christian fornicator?
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Josh
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Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics

Post by Josh »

gcdonner wrote:
Josh wrote:The Bible says nothing about celebrating "gay Christians who are celibate". On the other hand it sure has plenty of condemnations of homosexual behaviour all over the New Testament.
But, if the gay (sic) person is celibate, they don't have "homosexual behavior" do they, any more than a heterosexual person who refrains from fornication has?
Which sin is the greater? Both are resisting sin, are they not? However, that being said, how many restrained fornicators would confess to being a Christian fornicator?
If they resist sin and don't give into it, then they are not "gay".
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Bootstrap
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Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:If they resist sin and don't give into it, then they are not "gay".
I think we're arguing about the right way to define this word. The man who wrote the article resisted sin and did not give into it, yet described himself as gay. He wrote the article to explain his journey to others - gays who do not choose righteousness and heterosexuals who do not understand the temptations.

You probably have a different definition for the word 'gay' than he does. He can use the word his way, you can use the word your way, I think you are both following the teachings of Christ. Let's not let "wrangling over the meaning of words" get in the way of communication.
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Josh
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Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote:
Josh wrote:If they resist sin and don't give into it, then they are not "gay".
I think we're arguing about the right way to define this word. The man who wrote the article resisted sin and did not give into it, yet described himself as gay. He wrote the article to explain his journey to others - gays who do not choose righteousness and heterosexuals who do not understand the temptations.

You probably have a different definition for the word 'gay' than he does. He can use the word his way, you can use the word your way, I think you are both following the teachings of Christ. Let's not let "wrangling over the meaning of words" get in the way of communication.
Sure.

But in the context of our own church and our own community, I'm not interested in allowing the concept of a "gay identity" to take hold. It's obvious it's a slippery slope to full blown homosexual acceptance/promotion.

Instead I want to continue doing what we've been doing: promote chaste behaviour for everyone, and provide outlets for people engaging in sin who want to stop with ways to seek accountability, behavioural change, and be able to confess their sins one to another.
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gcdonner
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Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics

Post by gcdonner »

Josh wrote:
gcdonner wrote:
Josh wrote:The Bible says nothing about celebrating "gay Christians who are celibate". On the other hand it sure has plenty of condemnations of homosexual behaviour all over the New Testament.
But, if the gay (sic) person is celibate, they don't have "homosexual behavior" do they, any more than a heterosexual person who refrains from fornication has?
Which sin is the greater? Both are resisting sin, are they not? However, that being said, how many restrained fornicators would confess to being a Christian fornicator?
If they resist sin and don't give into it, then they are not "gay".
And therefore you are not a fornicator, right? As the fellow in Boot's reference sees it, his tendency towards same sex attraction makes him gay, yet in your view as long as he doesn't give in to it, he is not gay. As Boot stated it is the same thing but different perspectives.
It's like the propensity to sin that alcoholics continue to confess after they have been delivered. We set ourselves up for a fall, just like Christians who continue to believe that "when I sin" rather than what the bible says, "If I sin". ( I Jn 2:1)
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JimFoxvog
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Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics

Post by JimFoxvog »

I thought this quote, attributed to a Mr. B on Instagram whom I know nothing about, has a thought-provoking take on relating to politics:
I want my friends to understand that "staying out of politics" or being "sick of politics" is privilege in action. Your privilege allows you to live a non-political existence. Your wealth, your race, your abilities or your gender allows you to live a life in which you will not be a target of bigotry, attacks, deportation, or genocide. You don't want to get political, you don't want to fight because your life and safety are not at stake.
It is hard and exhausting to bring up issues of oppression (aka "get political"). The fighting is tiring. I get it. Self-care is essential. But if you find politics annoying and you just want everyone to be nice, please know that people are literally fighting for their lives and safety. You might not see it, but that's what privilege does.
Is this fair?

Is this helpful?
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gcdonner
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Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics

Post by gcdonner »

JimFoxvog wrote:I thought this quote, attributed to a Mr. B on Instagram whom I know nothing about, has a thought-provoking take on relating to politics:
I want my friends to understand that "staying out of politics" or being "sick of politics" is privilege in action. Your privilege allows you to live a non-political existence. Your wealth, your race, your abilities or your gender allows you to live a life in which you will not be a target of bigotry, attacks, deportation, or genocide. You don't want to get political, you don't want to fight because your life and safety are not at stake.
It is hard and exhausting to bring up issues of oppression (aka "get political"). The fighting is tiring. I get it. Self-care is essential. But if you find politics annoying and you just want everyone to be nice, please know that people are literally fighting for their lives and safety. You might not see it, but that's what privilege does.
Is this fair?

Is this helpful?
It is true, whether it is "fair" or "helpful" depends on each of us as individuals and how we react or respond to this truth.
The world is not a "nice" place, even with all the Mennonites in it.
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