Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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Josh
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote:What about a refugee family that cannot be safe in their native country, and wants to live together? Many refugees have been abused or tortured in a variety of ways.

Do other CAs have opinions on this question?
A number of members of my own church are in this situation; one country in particular we have had very little contact with. There are reports they have thousands of members but we have not been able to safely have contact or communication in years. We consider them both individually to be born again believers, and collectively to be part of the true church of God.

With that said, we don't think that a mass migration from Nigeria or Haiti to America would benefit the kingdom of heaven, and likewise, if conditions became very poor for us in America or Canada, I don't think most of us would choose to turn tail and run. Instead, we would choose to be salt and light where we are.

Bootstrap, ultimately, you have a hard time convincing me that the one million or so refugees in Germany out of a country with a population around 80 million are all there because they have been "abused or tortured in a variety of ways". Most of them are young, single men. And every single one I've met and talked to is fairly frank that they are seeking better economic opportunities.

Ultimately, I don't think that countries like Turkey are really places with massive, widespread abuse and torture, at least anymore than any other country. So there needs to be an explanation for why so many refugees are trying to migrate from Turkey to Greece, and then migrate to Germany, and then migrate to Scandinavia or the UK.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh, you seem to be weighing in on American politics as much as anything here. To me, this sounds more like a defense of Trump's policy than a description of conservative Anabaptist theology. But I could be missing something.
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Josh
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote:Josh, you seem to be weighing in on American politics as much as anything here. To me, this sounds more like a defense of Trump's policy than a description of conservative Anabaptist theology. But I could be missing something.
Most CAs are comfortable with the overall gist Trump’s approach to immigration policy, although not at all. Most are not comfortable at all with his bombastic personality.

I am guessing this is due to CAs being mostly rural or blue collar.
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Heirbyadoption »

Heirbyadoption wrote:
Josh wrote:Boot, most refugees are economic migrants, plain and simple.
Could you please back that statement up with a little source material?
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Heirbyadoption »

Heirbyadoption wrote:
Josh wrote:Boot, most refugees are economic migrants, plain and simple.
Could you please back that statement up with a little source material?
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Josh
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Josh »

Heirbyadoption wrote:
Heirbyadoption wrote:
Josh wrote:Boot, most refugees are economic migrants, plain and simple.
Could you please back that statement up with a little source material?
I really want to get out of this political debate, especially since it turned heated with me being accused of being a white nationalist.

Most my experience with refugees is that they are seeking a “better life” in terms of an overall experience with primarily economic concerns. Every single one I have met left a place that is safe (like Turkey) but desired to go to Europe.

Likewise, in the UK, ones I met left France because the UK had better opportunities.

I don’t harbour ill will to people who seek better opportunities for themselves.
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Valerie
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:
Heirbyadoption wrote:
Heirbyadoption wrote: Could you please back that statement up with a little source material?
I really want to get out of this political debate, especially since it turned heated with me being accused of being a white nationalist.

Most my experience with refugees is that they are seeking a “better life” in terms of an overall experience with primarily economic concerns. Every single one I have met left a place that is safe (like Turkey) but desired to go to Europe.

Likewise, in the UK, ones I met left France because the UK had better opportunities.

I don’t harbour ill will to people who seek better opportunities for themselves.
Could it be that the use of the word 'refugee' is not what you meant in this? Foreigner possibly would be more accurate if you are referring to people that go to other countries for economic reasons- for example there are a lot of doctors from India- they are not refugees, but they are foreigners looking for better economic opportunities to practice medicine- a lot of people came to America for this reason but that didn't mean they were refugees
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CADude
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by CADude »

I'm not trying to take sides or continue the political argument, but back when Germany's immigration woes were making news in the US, I also read that many of the refugees were seeking to improve their economic status. Many of them were also leaving war torn areas, but not nearly all. When some found themselves snarled by a beurocratic system and stuck in refugee camps with poor living conditions, they wished to return back to their homeland.
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Heirbyadoption »

Josh wrote:
Heirbyadoption wrote:
Heirbyadoption wrote: Could you please back that statement up with a little source material?
I really want to get out of this political debate, especially since it turned heated with me being accused of being a white nationalist.

Most my experience with refugees is that they are seeking a “better life” in terms of an overall experience with primarily economic concerns. Every single one I have met left a place that is safe (like Turkey) but desired to go to Europe.

Likewise, in the UK, ones I met left France because the UK had better opportunities.

I don’t harbour ill will to people who seek better opportunities for themselves.
Understood. I don't think you're a white nationalist at all, lol. But to paint all (or even the vast majority) of current "refugees" as economic ladder climbers is a dishonest (albeit unintentional) and unfair dismissal of the reality for the majority of those fleeing war or oppression in some form. Them folks I know well, I've met or communicated with a lot of them. And yes, I've also met a few country hoppers seeking better economic lives - you're absolutely right, they exist. But I do strongly question them being the major component of refugees in any way. If you disagree, you're welcome to share source data. Not trying to jump on you, just perceived your original statement to be inaccurate. And I understand it was addressing the context of immigration, so maybe it would be (as Valerie suggests) better for us to refer to economic immigrants and refugee immigrants where possible.
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PeterG
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by PeterG »

As I understand it, it is extremely difficult for refugees to work in Turkey. Refugees may be safe in Turkey in the sense that they are not generally in imminent danger of death, but I don't think they are refugees in a less meaningful way if they have moved on from Turkey in search of opportunities to provide for themselves. Aren't we in favor of providing for oneself rather than living on handouts?
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