Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
RZehr
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by RZehr »

PetrChelcicky wrote: The great idea which connects both movements is separatism.
The only thing they have in common is the word separatism. And we don't even use the word separatism.


PetrChelcicky wrote:On the long run, religious separatism and racial separatism will survive together - or getting extinct together.
They might both survive and continue to be separate, but they will never "survive together".
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Valerie
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Valerie »

Bootstrap wrote:
Valerie wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:
One kind of separation says "this world is not our home, we are members of another kingdom, we are pilgrims and aliens here". The other kind of separation says "this is our country and our kingdom, it is not your home, go back to your own kingdom, we have no room for pilgrims and aliens here".
Or, it can be that we welcome pilgrims and aliens who respect the needful process in place for valid reasons.
This thread is about Anabaptist separatism versus alt-right separatism. I'm guessing you are neither a conservative Anabaptist nor a member of the alt-right. Conservative Anabaptist separatism, at it's purest, would not presume to tell the government what the needful process is. Alt-right separatism does not want to welcome pilgrims and aliens who respect the needful process.
I'm mindful of my nieces good friend whose family is from Iran (been here a few years). She is a senior in high school, and is getting an entire college education for free and yet spent a good part of Christmas day bashing our government and pointing out that it needs 'changed'. So is it good for others to leave their own country, get free rides and then bite the hand that feeds them? What kind of 'changes' do these pilgrims and aliens want to make in our country after leaving their own country?
Most Americans I know think the government needs changing, including Americans who have received significant government assistance. Even conservative Anabaptists who don't vote might think our government needs changing - surely you aren't proposing that your niece's good friend should be sent back to Iran. I assume you would say the role of Christians is to love and serve refugees, just like we love and serve other groups. Regardless, I think Petr started this thread to imply that there is no difference between Anabaptist separatism and white supremacy. I doubt you would agree with him.

The separatism of conservative Anabaptism is not about government policy or how refugees should act in America. It belongs to another kingdom. I am not a conservative Anabaptist, but I agree with them on this. And my main job is to be a servant of others, including refugees.
Sorry for sidetracking, I just felt you were painting with perhaps a broad brush when there are legitimate concerns with refugees, pilgrims, aliens in these days we live- not because of 'color' but there are very legitimat concerns. Yes I know there are Americans wanting to change our governement, who also 'take' from it- there's never been a year, where the American people didn't complain about our government- but we are taxpayers as well-do you recommend us going to other countries, taking from them, and then try to change their government? I understood when we took in ALOT of Viet Nam refugees, and was glad we did- yet they were given MANY advantages and handouts that American taxpayers couldn't begin to hope for- since I lived in CA, an expensive state- I knew many people who couldn't afford to buy a home but refugees were given 0% interest loans and could buy homes-

No I was not suggesting the young lady from Iran go back- BUT- while bashing our govenrment who was helping her get a completely FREE college education- you have to admit it was somewhat difficult to hear from those who had been paying taxes all their life and try to figure out how to pay for their own children's expensive education-

Back to OP, sorry for sidetrack I didn't feel the point about us seeming less than hospitable to pilgrims & aliens was really fair in light of how much we do help so many- some are thankful, to some it will never be enough- PLUS if they want to turn our governemnt into Islamic sympathizers and implement things like Shariah Law (like has been tried) then we need to be wise about all this-
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Bootstrap
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Bootstrap »

Valerie wrote:Sorry for sidetracking, I just felt you were painting with perhaps a broad brush when there are legitimate concerns with refugees, pilgrims, aliens in these days we live- not because of 'color' but there are very legitimate concerns.
The topic in this thread involves white separatism. I don't think white separatism has much to do with legitimate concerns. i would rather not sidetrack this thread by going into that here, I would rather focus on the ways that kind of separatism is different from Anabaptist separatism.

I'm glad that several conservative Anabaptists have weighed in here since I am not a conservative Anabaptist and can't represent them. Since my name was mentioned in the original post, though I thought I would try to provide some clarity on this difference as I see it.
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Josh
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Josh »

Most conservative Anabaptists that I know who share their political opinions would be of the opinion that a government can set up immigration restrictions.

Most CAs I know are pretty open to going to other countries and setting up missions / aid organisations to serve displaced peoples.

Generally speaking, CAs are not in agreement with left-wing politicians who want wide open borders. With that said, if refugees are already here, they will try to share the gospel with them.

One example is a man who was an illegal alien from South America was reached out to by CAs, and eventually became a member. The position of most CAs is that we don’t break the law, and eventually he chose to quit breaking the law and moved back to South America.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:One example is a man who was an illegal alien from South America was reached out to by CAs, and eventually became a member. The position of most CAs is that we don’t break the law, and eventually he chose to quit breaking the law and moved back to South America.
There are circumstances where CAs will break the law, which is one of the reasons Mennonites were jailed before conscientious objectors had legal status and the reason that Timo Miller went to prison out of conscience.

I wonder how someone like Timo Miller would relate to some of the situations refugees face where there is a genuine fear for people's lives and families are being divided. Lisa Miller's desire to protect her child was clearly at odds with American law. Some refugees face very similar issues - would conservative Anabaptists respond to them in a similar way?
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Josh
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Josh »

Boot, most refugees are economic migrants, plain and simple. Generally CAs do not promote migrating for better economic opportunities if you can’t bring your whole family with you. In my particular group, the CGCM discourages members in 3rd world countries from trying to migrate to the 1st world for economic reasons.
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Heirbyadoption »

Josh wrote:Boot, most refugees are economic migrants, plain and simple.
Could you please back that statement up with a little source material?
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Bootstrap
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:Boot, most refugees are economic migrants, plain and simple. Generally CAs do not promote migrating for better economic opportunities if you can’t bring your whole family with you. In my particular group, the CGCM discourages members in 3rd world countries from trying to migrate to the 1st world for economic reasons.
Whatever the percentage is, it's clearly not all. So why duck my question?
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Josh
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Josh »

Breaking the law to avoid your biological daughter from being given to a homosexual who is possibly abusing her is quite different from breaking immigration laws which result in only some of your family being able to cross a border, legally or illegally.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Anabaptist separatism and white separatism

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:Breaking the law to avoid your biological daughter from being given to a homosexual who is possibly abusing her is quite different from breaking immigration laws which result in only some of your family being able to cross a border, legally or illegally.
What about a refugee family that cannot be safe in their native country, and wants to live together? Many refugees have been abused or tortured in a variety of ways.

Do other CAs have opinions on this question?
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